The Mark of a True Calvinist

[Revmitchell]

There are two types of Calvinists. The Calvinist who has learned his Calvinism only by studying books and creeds, and the Calvinist who, although he has studied these same books and creeds, has come to understand the doctrine of free grace by the illumination of the Holy Spirit. In other words, there is the Calvinist who has the TULIP acronym in his head, and the Calvinist who has it in his heart.

Often the major difference between them is pride and humility. The former has become a little arrogant if not all together harsh because of his personal intellectual accomplishment, while the latter has been deeply humbled by a fuller understanding of the doctrine.

Regardless, only the Calvinists who are gentle and humble should be considered as genuine. Why? Because, they truly understand the doctrine as evidenced by their humility. Therefore, as we shall see, humility is the distinguishing mark of a true Calvinist....

http://gbcconway.com/wp-content/uploads/TheMarkofaTrueCalvinist.pdf

 

[Yeshua1]

There are two types of Calvinists. The Calvinist who has learned his Calvinism only by studying books and creeds, and the Calvinist who, although he has studied these same books and creeds, has come to understand the doctrine of free grace by the illumination of the Holy Spirit. In other words, there is the Calvinist who has the TULIP acronym in his head, and the Calvinist who has it in his heart.

Often the major difference between them is pride and humility. The former has become a little arrogant if not all together harsh because of his personal intellectual accomplishment, while the latter has been deeply humbled by a fuller understanding of the doctrine.

Regardless, only the Calvinists who are gentle and humble should be considered as genuine. Why? Because, they truly understand the doctrine as evidenced by their humility. Therefore, as we shall see, humility is the distinguishing mark of a true Calvinist....

http://gbcconway.com/wp-content/uploads/TheMarkofaTrueCalvinist.pdf

We call the division between reformed/Reformed! reformed hold to the DoG, but also do not have confessions/creeds to rference the Bible thru, as we hold to the Bible alone is sufficient, but others can use them as long as they see them as bible study aids, NOT the primary authority/means to understand the bible!

reformed have Confessions/creeds, and also have entire calvinism theology, taking in Covenant theology, main difference being some baptizr infants/babies, whiles don't!

And the true mark of ANY Christian will be love for the bethren, and for the lost, regardless if cal/arm/whatever else!

 

[Revmitchell]

My Beef with Calvinists

I have a beef with Calvinists.

First of all before you get ready to send my an email with your fists flying, let me remind you that I am one (cf. the url). This means that I have theological license to throw elbows and pound the speed bag.

My beef centers on the fundamental contradiction that is unveiled in many of the arguments and attitudes communicated by those ‘in the camp’. I have seen and heard some of the most condescending, unkind, and ungracious tones in communicating with or about those who do not agree with us. And sometimes if you get a few of us together, talking theology, the sniper rifles come out and we are soon enjoying open season on liberals, Arminians, Emergents and various and sundry freaks in the American Christian movement.

Now, as a good Calvinist let me first qualify this. I don’t think it is wrong to point out error, especially within the umbrella of Christianity. In fact it is biblical (1 Tim. 4.1-8). However, it is the aura of self-righteousness that accompanies these jabs that is troublesome. We think, talk and act like they are so stupid. We filet folks who do not believe in the universal depravity of mankind.

We say things like, “Humanity is spiritually dead. We can do nothing to arouse our affections for God. God must impart truth to the mind of the dead man. God must illumine the soul of the one whom he has regenerated.”

And we say these things (which are true) with a condescension that undermines it.

http://www.ordinarypastor.com/?p=1746

 

[Revmitchell]

An Apology from an Arrogant Calvinist

There are a few common hand grenades that get lobbed at Calvinists. One of the most common that you’ll find is that they tend to be frustratingly pompous in their approach to other believers who may not agree with their theology.

Calvinists, especially these new ones, can (and will, if you let them) quote Calvin, Luther, Owen, Edwards, Sproul, and Piper for hours on end, and yet (the argument goes) they love their theology and their books, but don’t love people – at least not enough to show any sort of patience or grace for those who may disagree.

Guest posting on Justin Taylor’s blog last week, Jared Wilson wrote:

Gracelessness is never as big a disappointment, to me anyway, as when it’s found among those who call themselves Calvinists, because it’s such a big waste of Calvinism.

Why? Because it’s a depressing irony and a disgrace that many who hold to the so-called “doctrines of grace” are some of the most graceless people around. The extent to which your soteriology is monergistic — most Calvinistic nerds know what I’m talking about here — is the extent to which you ought to know that your pride is a vomitous affront to God. The hypocrisy is incongruous.

And so, as a young Calvinist (yep, I’m one of those), please allow me to say something that you might not hear often:
I’m sorry

I apologize for all of the times that I or my brothers have allowed the sin of pride to creep in. I’m sorry for all of the times that I chose to display that sin rather than mortify it.

That’s not godly or excusable. In fact, it exemplifies my need for grace all the more. And if that’s the case, then I’d better be willing to extend that same grace to you.

http://www.davidnormanblog.com/arrogant-calvinists/

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I have a beef with Calvinists.

First of all before you get ready to send my an email with your fists flying, let me remind you that I am one (cf. the url). This means that I have theological license to throw elbows and pound the speed bag.

My beef centers on the fundamental contradiction that is unveiled in many of the arguments and attitudes communicated by those ‘in the camp’. I have seen and heard some of the most condescending, unkind, and ungracious tones in communicating with or about those who do not agree with us. And sometimes if you get a few of us together, talking theology, the sniper rifles come out and we are soon enjoying open season on liberals, Arminians, Emergents and various and sundry freaks in the American Christian movement.

Now, as a good Calvinist let me first qualify this. I don’t think it is wrong to point out error, especially within the umbrella of Christianity. In fact it is biblical (1 Tim. 4.1-8). However, it is the aura of self-righteousness that accompanies these jabs that is troublesome. We think, talk and act like they are so stupid. We filet folks who do not believe in the universal depravity of mankind.

We say things like, “Humanity is spiritually dead. We can do nothing to arouse our affections for God. God must impart truth to the mind of the dead man. God must illumine the soul of the one whom he has regenerated.”

And we say these things (which are true) with a condescension that undermines it.

http://www.ordinarypastor.com/?p=1746

I disagree..... I believe that the Calvinist's generally attempt to be cordial, polite & sincere when engaging in dialog. They do not become inflamed until a snotty remark or two or three are thrown around in attempts to nullify & demean the Calvinist (sometimes as if they were dirt)....so naturally there is a fair amount of retaliation. I'm just as guilty as anyone else & that doesn't excuse me but it's unfair to accuse one side without seeing the faults of the others.

 

[Revmitchell]

I disagree..... I believe that the Calvinist's generally attempt to be cordial, polite & sincere when engaging in dialog. They do not become inflamed until a snotty remark or two or three are thrown around in attempts to nullify & demean the Calvinist (sometimes as if they were dirt)....so naturally there is a fair amount of retaliation. I'm just as guilty as anyone else & that doesn't excuse me but it's unfair to accuse one side without seeing the faults of the others.

And yet those who call themselves calvinists disagree with you.

 

[Revmitchell]

Here is a good example of what I am talking about:

That's Not Exegesis, That's Eisegesis!

What I have found with us Calvinists is that we like to think that we have the corner on exegesis. Almost like we invented biblical interpretation. We can argue with the best of them on Greek syntax and verb forms but if you for some reason don't get it after all that explanation, we will simply go to our "go to guy"...the good ole Mr. Eisegesis. If after everything we have explained to you and you still don't get it and you try and explain your case, if we don't like it, out comes the claim that you are not exegeting Scripture, you are eisegeting Scripture. We are the ones who always allow Scripture to speak for itself, not you. You simply are allowing reason and your tradition overwhelm your thoughts on Scripture instead of allowing it to speak for itself.

I have heard this claim no matter the argument and no matter the competing views. So reason number one for people hating Calvinists is the simple claim of us having the corner of exegesis. You don't agree with our exegesis...you should stop with your stupid eisegesis.

http://contendearnestly.blogspot.com/2009/07/why-people-hate-calvinists.html

 

[Yeshua1]

I have a beef with Calvinists.

First of all before you get ready to send my an email with your fists flying, let me remind you that I am one (cf. the url). This means that I have theological license to throw elbows and pound the speed bag.

My beef centers on the fundamental contradiction that is unveiled in many of the arguments and attitudes communicated by those ‘in the camp’. I have seen and heard some of the most condescending, unkind, and ungracious tones in communicating with or about those who do not agree with us. And sometimes if you get a few of us together, talking theology, the sniper rifles come out and we are soon enjoying open season on liberals, Arminians, Emergents and various and sundry freaks in the American Christian movement.

Now, as a good Calvinist let me first qualify this. I don’t think it is wrong to point out error, especially within the umbrella of Christianity. In fact it is biblical (1 Tim. 4.1-8). However, it is the aura of self-righteousness that accompanies these jabs that is troublesome. We think, talk and act like they are so stupid. We filet folks who do not believe in the universal depravity of mankind.

We say things like, “Humanity is spiritually dead. We can do nothing to arouse our affections for God. God must impart truth to the mind of the dead man. God must illumine the soul of the one whom he has regenerated.”

And we say these things (which are true) with a condescension that undermines it.

http://www.ordinarypastor.com/?p=1746

My take on this is that those against calvinism though keep saying that we stand on John calvin and his teachings...

My point on that is my stance is on Jesus/Apostles, and that calvin was gifted by God to be able to discern some things as a teacher, as was luther and others of the era of the reformation, but NONE were Apostles, and its just away to study/system study the scriptures, but NOT only way to, or an infallible way to!

I cannot say with others that calvinism IS the Gospel, and Arms/non cals preach/teach 'wrong gospel"

My belief is that we see it more compleyely how God operates in salvation, but NOT only or an infallible way!

 

[Revmitchell]

My take on this is that those against calvinism though keep saying that we stand on John calvin and his teachings...

I don't say that.

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't say that.

Not saying that you do, but several here posting do!

 

[Revmitchell]

Not saying that you do, but several here posting do!

I do not care what they do. I do not speak for them nor do I consider them. I am only speaking from my dealings with calvinists.

 

[Thousand Hills]

I do not care what they do. I do not speak for them nor do I consider them. I am only speaking from my dealings with calvinists.

Rev, I must fall under the third category of Calvinist, because I'm a " Calvinist". But you started like four threads on April 13, then this thread today. All of them are articles you pasted from somewhere else, this one at least has three articles within the same thread so at least its one stop shopping. But it seems to me like your the angry one.

I've also seen you make the statement above several times about your "personal dealings with calvinists", yet you continue to post articles, I would like to hear a personal story about how they have been so horrible to you.

Are there arrogant Calvinists, sure, are there humble Calvinists, sure. There are plenty of arrogant and humble non cals as well. Maybe I should start a thread about the angry non-cal I've met who brags about how many their "runnin" in Sunday School, or the angry non-cal I've met that thinks terms such as atonement, justification, and santification aren't important.

 

[Revmitchell]

Rev, I must fall under the third category of Calvinist, because I'm a " Calvinist". But you started like four threads on April 13, then this thread today. All of them are articles you pasted from somewhere else, this one at least has three articles within the same thread so at least its one stop shopping. But it seems to me like your the angry one.

I've also seen you make the statement above several times about your "personal dealings with calvinists", yet you continue to post articles, I would like to hear a personal story about how they have been so horrible to you.

Are there arrogant Calvinists, sure, are there humble Calvinists, sure. There are plenty of arrogant and humble non cals as well. Maybe I should start a thread about the angry non-cal I've met who brags about how many their "runnin" in Sunday School, or the angry non-cal I've met that thinks terms such as atonement, justification, and santification aren't important.

The issue is the calvinists on this board who for the most part talk down to those who are not. By the way the several posts I made the other day all came from the same article. I made an attempt to have a discussion without convoluting a number of issues. And the single article I posted from made some good points and broke it all down point by point.

But even by just posting them calvinists became defensive. Which makes my point.

 

[Thousand Hills]

The issue is the calvinists on this board who for the most part talk down to those who are not. By the way the several posts I made the other day all came from the same article. I made an attempt to have a discussion without convoluting a number of issues. And the single article I posted from made some good points and broke it all down point by point.

But even by just posting them calvinists became defensive. Which makes my point.

I'm sorry, but I still don't see your point. Out of the threads you posted the other day only this one got any responses.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=85004

Seems to me like early on you were the one attacking 12Strings, he seems to be one of the more gracious posters on BB in my opinion.

The other four threads didn't even get a response.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=85005

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=85003

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=85002

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=85001

 

[Revmitchell]

I'm sorry, but I still don't see your point. Out of the threads you posted the other day only this one got any responses.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=85004

Seems to me like early on you were the one attacking 12Strings, he seems to be one of the more gracious posters on BB in my opinion.

The other four threads didn't even get a response.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=85005

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=85003

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=85002

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=85001

He called it a rant. Nothing gracious about that.

 

[Herald]

I am not saying that Rev does not have a point, but everything said as a criticism of Calvinists can be laid on Arminians also. No one position has a lock on arrogance.

 

[Revmitchell]

I am not saying that Rev does not have a point, but everything said as a criticism of Calvinists can be laid on Arminians also. No one position has a lock on arrogance.

Who are the arminians.

It is a huge and recognized problem among calvnists as I have laid the case for.

 

[Herald]

Who are the arminians.

It is a huge and recognized problem among calvnists as I have laid the case for.

Rev, I am not trying to be impertinent, but who are the Calvinists? There are big "R" Reformed, small "r" Reformed, neo-Calvinists (ie. Mark Driscoll), Amyraldians (near Calvinists), et al.

No one wants to take the time to drill down on who they are talking about, so we use a term like "Calvinist " or "Arminian" as representative of an entire group.

 

[Herald]

Speaking as a Calvinist, most of the problems I have seen are among cage-stage Calvinists. It is as though they personally discovered Calvinism. They are quite exasperating. It takes time, patience, solid teaching, and love to get them to see the big picture. This is why I think Calvinism, apart from the greater umbrella of Reformed Theology, has inherent problems. Reformed Theology, with its heavy emphasis on the grace of God, is a sobering influence on Calvinist soteriology. It can be a very good check and balance. Lone Ranger Calvinism creates lots of problems.

 

[Revmitchell]

Rev, I am not trying to be impertinent, but who are the Calvinists? There are big "R" Reformed, small "r" Reformed, neo-Calvinists (ie. Mark Driscoll), Amyraldians (near Calvinists), et al.

No one wants to take the time to drill down on who they are talking about, so we use a term like "Calvinist " or "Arminian" as representative of an entire group.

Whatever, when you refer to everyone not a calvinist as arminian then you are just plain wrong. And it is a prime example of how calvinists divide themselves from everyone else.