The Mark of a True Calvinist

[Herald]

I have a question: Why are there so many Calvinism vs Arminianism threads and discussions here? And why do they get so heated? No one is going to change anyone else's mind, so what's the point?

Actually, they can play a part in someone changing their view. Remember that not everyone who reads these threads posts. There are more lurkers than participants. We may never know who was impacted by a thread.

As to why they are heated? Historically it has been one of the most hotly debated doctrines since the Reformation. Think about it. Monergism vs Synergism goes right to the heart of the Gospel. There is a lot at stake.

Of course, for some, it is not just emotion during vigorous debate that wanes afterwards. For some it is personal. It crosses the line between debate and sin. I have crossed that line before and have had to repent of it. Humbling to be sure.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And not even willing to fess up to it.

Thats called denial. Ive seen that in ministering to alcoholics who are in their final stages, sitting in hospital beds (with there livers bloated out & jaundiced) telling me, "But nobody understands, --- I'm not an alcoholic!"

Then you come back & that guys dead & some other poor sot is replacing him telling ya, "But you dont understand, Im not alcoholic!"

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I have a question: Why are there so many Calvinism vs Arminianism threads and discussions here? And why do they get so heated? No one is going to change anyone else's mind, so what's the point?

Let me ask you Tom, why did you start a thread criticizing Roman Catholics?

 

[Revmitchell]

I have a question: Why are there so many Calvinism vs Arminianism threads and discussions here? And why do they get so heated? No one is going to change anyone else's mind, so what's the point?

Because they believe with all their heart that advances the gospel.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Because they believe with all their heart that advances the gospel.

What time you on again...gotta catch the next show! :laugh:

 

[Yeshua1]

His entire post is an insult

Didn't paul get the same response by those who saw him perverting the gospel and making it stand for 'loose living?"

since paul understood the very framework of how God saves us, and my questions /answers are grounded in that, who is insulted by it?

Why aren't you offended by those who deny original Sin, and who exault the free will of man to a degree making it essential equal to Gods, that we somehow participate in our salvation by God?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Let me ask you Tom, why did you start a thread criticizing Roman Catholics?

That's not what I started the thread for. If you'll go back and read the OP, you'll find that my purpose was something else. Here is my opening paragraph from the OP:

"I am strongly opposed to Roman Catholicsim, and I have stated many of my reasons why, and why I could never be Roman Catholic. However, I have probably gone too far with some of my criticism. I say this because lately when I read some other posts on the RCC, I get kind of a bad feeling. I can't remember if I said the RCC is a false church teaching a false Gospel, but if I did I will stop saying it and if I didn't say it, I won't. Why am I making this decision? Because the way I feel about the RCC, I also feel about Calvinism. I am strongly opposed to TULIP, and I could never be Presbyterian. In fact, I am more opposed to TULIP than some features of the RCC. So, I'll just say that I believe the RCC teaches grave errors, and I also believe this about Calvinism."

 

[Revmitchell]

That's not what I started the thread for. If you'll go back and read the OP, you'll find that my purpose was something else. Here is my opening paragraph from the OP:

"I am strongly opposed to Roman Catholicsim, and I have stated many of my reasons why, and why I could never be Roman Catholic. However, I have probably gone too far with some of my criticism. I say this because lately when I read some other posts on the RCC, I get kind of a bad feeling. I can't remember if I said the RCC is a false church teaching a false Gospel, but if I did I will stop saying it and if I didn't say it, I won't. Why am I making this decision? Because the way I feel about the RCC, I also feel about Calvinism. I am strongly opposed to TULIP, and I could never be Presbyterian. In fact, I am more opposed to TULIP than some features of the RCC. So, I'll just say that I believe the RCC teaches grave errors, and I also believe this about Calvinism."

I understood what your purpose was. Although the comparison to Calvinism is unclear.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I understood what your purpose was. Although the comparison to Calvinism is unclear.

I'm just saying that I need to be more careful what I say about both, as I am equally opposed to both, but I don't want to be unfair, and I don't want the discussion to take on personal attacks or insults. I've read a lot of that here, and it shouldn't happen. I've been guilty of inappropriate comments myself, but I don't want to do that.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

I disagree..... I believe that the Calvinist's generally attempt to be cordial, polite & sincere when engaging in dialog. They do not become inflamed until a snotty remark or two or three are thrown around in attempts to nullify & demean the Calvinist (sometimes as if they were dirt)....so naturally there is a fair amount of retaliation. I'm just as guilty as anyone else & that doesn't excuse me but it's unfair to accuse one side without seeing the faults of the others.

Agree. Typically Armenians get defensive and resort to nit picking and ridicule etc. I think it's possibly due to their lack of proper education in the scriptures. :BangHead::BangHead:

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Agree. Typically Armenians get defensive and resort to nit picking and ridicule etc. I think it's possibly due to their lack of proper education in the scriptures. :BangHead::BangHead:

Typical falsehood, insults, and pablum. Take it elsewhere.

 

[Yeshua1]

Typical falsehood, insults, and pablum. Take it elsewhere.

i do think that calvinists tend to have a more systematic approach to the scriptures, to have a more defined theology though!

 

[Yeshua1]

Bub you are not going to pin me down to a system or camp. Period.

problem is that one MUST be either S or M camp, no other options available to apply for!

 

[Revmitchell]

problem is that one MUST be either S or M camp, no other options available to apply for!

Or you just don't consider either camp and live without it.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

i do think that calvinists tend to have a more systematic approach to the scriptures, to have a more defined theology though!

Of course you think that.

 

[Yeshua1]

Of course you think that.

Don't more calvinists hold to a more formal approach, such as creeds/confessions than non cals do though?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Don't more calvinists hold to a more formal approach, such as creeds/confessions than non cals do though?

I wouldn't say that.

 

[saturneptune]

Agree. Typically Armenians get defensive and resort to nit picking and ridicule etc. I think it's possibly due to their lack of proper education in the scriptures. :BangHead::BangHead:

That statement is totally false. I believe strongly in doctrines of grace and sovereignty, and Arminians and Calvinists act exactly the same in being cordial during debates. They act the same in that both sides are JAs.

Two points to be made. One is a "lack of proper education in the Scriptures" is not a synonym for disagreeing with your opinion. Second, an Armenian is a citizen of Armenia. An Arminian is a follower of the idea of the free will of man being an element in coming to salvation. That does not mean an Arminian believes God has no part or is not sovereign.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

That statement is totally false. I believe strongly in doctrines of grace and sovereignty, and Arminians and Calvinists act exactly the same in being cordial during debates. They act the same in that both sides are JAs.

Two points to be made. One is a "lack of proper education in the Scriptures" is not a synonym for disagreeing with your opinion. Second, an Armenian is a citizen of Armenia. An Arminian is a follower of the idea of the free will of man being an element in coming to salvation. That does not mean an Arminian believes God has no part or is not sovereign.

:thumbsup:

 

[Revmitchell]

That statement is totally false. I believe strongly in doctrines of grace and sovereignty, and Arminians and Calvinists act exactly the same in being cordial during debates. They act the same in that both sides are JAs.

Two points to be made. One is a "lack of proper education in the Scriptures" is not a synonym for disagreeing with your opinion. Second, an Armenian is a citizen of Armenia. An Arminian is a follower of the idea of the free will of man being an element in coming to salvation. That does not mean an Arminian believes God has no part or is not sovereign.

You, Ann, and Tom are of the few that do not look to demonize or demean the opposing view in order to make a point. Thank you for your example to the others.