Featured How to Reckon the Seventy Weeks

You have a lot of nerve Icon.

Not really. If the Bible states that the sky is blue and someone insists that it is allegory and subject to interpretation then I can state with confidence that they do not take the word seriously. If insisting that when the Bible states that the sky is blue when it uses the word blue to describe the color of the sky makes me prideful and arrogant then so be it.

Look very closely to Matthew ch 24. And understand that the Jews were not pouring over the New Testament like Christians.
Now with that in mind, the disciples ask a question which had to do with the buildings of the temple, which by the way were built and financed by who _________? Why do you think Jesus never actually entered the sanctuary of the Temple? Jesus said that the temple in Jerusalem, built by the Roman government would be dismantled, which it was.

Then the disciples asked when the temple would be destroyed and what would be the sign of the end age. Tell me Mr Bosley where in discourse that follows and in the parallel passages in the other gospel accounts where Jesus talks about the date and circumstances of the previously mentioned destruction of the temple? Jesus did say that near the end of the age there would be the abomination that causes desolation, but would you agree that both the anti-christ would be the person to do this abomination and that the temple would have to be standing at the time of the abomination? If one insists that the abomination that causes desolation happened in AD70 then we know who the anti-christ is. And Mr. Bosley, his name is _________. Does this anti-christ suffer the fate that the Bible states will happen to the anti-christ or am I just being arrogant by asking the question?

Preterist like Icon cannot answer questions from Matthew ch 24 such as:

1. If Jesus is talking about true Christian church age believers who have the NT texts about the signs of the end of the age (not the sign of the end of the temple in Jerusalem) and if they see all of the signs up to but just before the point where the anti-christ commits the desolation in the temple but are still in Jerusalem at that time, could it not be said that they are being disobedient to the word for not leaving prior to the desolation? Did they not see the gathering storm clouds? But suppose for whatever reason some true believers are still in Jerusalem at the time AD70, who were those believers and where did they go to? No preterist can answer that question. Also in verse 14 ch 24, Jesus states that those who stay until the end will be saved. If the words are given to the Christians and not the Jews, does this not put the Christian in the awful position of having to make a choice between leaving as Jesus tells them to do or staying to suffer 7 years of tribulation judgements during a 4 year seige of Jerusalem by the Roman Army as Jesus states those who survive to the end will be saved? The best explanation is that Jesus is speaking about the Jews who do not have the NT but will look to those texts in the tribulation for an answer to what is going on in the world during the future great tribulation.

2. If only the elect survived the tribulation and we entered the kingdom AD70 as the preterist teach, then in AD70 only elect were on the earth at that time. Explain this if you can Mr. Bosley in light of recorded history and present reality. You cannot.

3. Who are all of the false Christs Jesus said would appear at that time? Name just one.

You are going to need them.

 

Icon,

Refresh my memory. Was it dispy Harold Camping who predicted the end of the age last year or was it we are living in the "kingdom now" covenant believer Harold Camping who predicted the end of the age last year?

 

Your wrong on both counts....It the old screw ball, in need of something to make himself look relevant to his wing-nut followers, Harold Camping....nothing new in religious circles...actually quite common.

 

SN,
my first few years as a christian the Hal Lindsey thing was all that I heard being taught. I learned that system and attempted to teach others what i was being told was the BIBLICAL VIEW.
I was getting tapes and books and charts etc. As I first heard of the amill/postmill teachings, I first heard caricatures of those teachings and would mock at the ideas as presented then.

many of the same objections offered here by Thomas15, and previously by revmac, were being employed by me in any discussion that started to take place.....Their were two amill brothers first....that were on my case.

reading Jonathan Edwards on the history of redemption was also very helpful....

here are some more -

http://books.google.com/books?id=c2...&resnum=4&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false


http://www.letgodbetrue.com/sermons/prophecy/gospel-millennium/sermon.php

here is some of it...also listen to this sermon....

Did Jesus offer the Jews a future kingdom on earth?
No, He opened His ministry by preaching time fulfilled and the kingdom at hand (Mark 1:14-15).
No, He preached glad tidings about the kingdom, which was not 2000 years away (Luke 8:1).
No, He told His preachers to declare to cities that the kingdom was nigh to them (Luke 10:9-11).
No, He declared that His miracles proved the kingdom of God had come (Matt 12:28; Luke 11:20).
No, He told Jews that Gentiles would come from all lands to take it (Matt 8:11-12; Luke 13:28-29).
No, He spoke of the end of the world involving the wicked being taken first (Matthew 13:24-43).
No, He spoke of the kingdom's small beginnings turning into a large thing indeed (Matt 13:31-33).
No, He spoke to Peter about his kingdom privileges as his authority in the church (Matt 16:15-20).
No, He condemned the Pharisees for neglecting and blocking a present kingdom (Matthew 23:13).
No, He offered them His gospel kingdom and then gave it to the Gentiles (Matt 21:33-46; 22:1-7).
No, He told His hearers some would live long enough to see the kingdom (Mark 9:1; Luke 9:27).
No, He blessed men who had already left the things of this life for the kingdom (Luke 18:29-30).
No, He pressed kingdom duties when He was pressed about the appearance of it (Luke 19:11-27).
No, He rather described a fuller manifestation of the kingdom within a generation (Luke 21:29-33).
No, He declared at the Last Supper that He would shortly fulfill it in the kingdom (Luke 22:16).
No, He offered blessings in this life or in the world to come, but not in a millennium (Mark 10:30).
No, He told a scribe at least 2000 years before the millennium that he was close to it (Mark 12:34)!
No, He said His kingdom came not with observation, precluding any earthly one (Luke 17:20-21).
No, He said that His kingdom was not of this world, which precludes millennial ideas (John 18:36).
No, He rejected their attempts to forcibly make Him a king for filling their bellies (John 6:15,26).
No, He told them their house was left desolate to them and was no longer God's (Matthew 23:38).
No, He told them they were imposter Jews of the synagogue of Satan (John 8:44; Rev 2:9; 3:9).
No, He told His apostles that Nathanael was an Israelite indeed, unlike the nation (John 1:47).
No, He spoke of the kingdom to His disciples, but He said nothing about a millennium (Acts 1:3).
No, He did not even correct the thief who expected Jesus to arrive in His kingdom (Luke 23:42).
No, He told His apostles that the church was the only kingdom He had for them (Luke 22:28-30).

Did Paul offer the Jews a future kingdom on earth?
No! He taught the hope of Israel was the resurrection of the dead, not a millennium (Ac 28:17-22).
No! He preached the gospel about Jesus Christ as the glad tidings of the kingdom (Acts 28:23-31).
No! He persuaded men about the kingdom in Ephesus without any millennium (Acts 19:8; 20:25).
No! He declared the kingdom to be a thing very different than a Jewish millennium (Rom 14:17).
No! He told them they related in God's sight to the rejected Hagar and Ishmael (Gal 4:21-31).
No! He told Jews they had been united with Gentiles in one body by Christ (Eph 2:11-22; 3:1-13).
No! He told Jews they had already received the final kingdom of God (Heb 12:25-29; Hag 2:6-9).
No! He told Jews the prophecies of a new covenant were fulfilled in Christ (Hebrews 8:6-13).
No! He told Jews the glorious rest of God promised by David was the gospel (Heb 3:7 – 4:11).
No! He told Jews that Abraham their father had never wanted a kingdom on earth (Heb 11:8-16).
No! He told men that true Jews were spiritual seed by election (Rom 2:28-29; 9:6-8,24; Gal 6:16).
No! He taught the Corinthians the second coming would merely deliver it to God (I Cor 15:23-28).

 

You can pick on Harold Camping to attempt to avoid the Philip Mauro article.
interestingly as Mr.Campings mind began to slip showing his age...he abandoned his partial preterist positions that he held for years,in favor of some premill ideas,and eventually denied hell also. Nice try but it does not get you off the hook:thumbs:

No...not a lot of nerve.I consider Ken Gentry, and Gary Demar brothers and fellow servants IN Christ. They are not here to speak for themselves when you shamefully call them names....without the slightest attempt to refute their teachings.
If you made such an attempt openly, or emailed them and they failed to respond to you, then you might be able to speak against them.As it is you are sad in just making these comments when you cannot begin to refute them.

 

RL B

Yes From Whitelaws sermon


What is a summary of the Premillennial timetable?
They believe prophecy is for speculation about future events rather than comfort and faith during them (Isaiah 41:23; 42:9; 44:7-8; 46:9-10; 48:5; Matt 24:25; John 13:19; 14:29; 16:4).
Here is a simple summary of the main events and time gaps in their eschatological fantasies.
The gospel must be preached worldwide for a witness, and earthquakes and wars must increase.
Jesus will come again in a secret rapture to resurrect saints only and take them safely to heaven.
The antichrist will help Jews restore the O.T. for 3.5 years; then he will oppose them for 3.5.
During this time of antichrist swings, 144,000 Jewish missionaries will convert many to Christ.
Jesus comes a third time to destroy antichrist and 200,000,000 Chinese cavalry at Armageddon.
Jesus will take the throne of David in Jerusalem, restore animal sacrifices, and rule the earth.
The wicked will submit for 1000 years, but then Jesus will come a fourth time to defeat them.
After that, we have the great Day of Judgment and the books are opened to find our destinies.
Finally, we get a new heaven and new earth, where Gentiles and Jews are almost comparable.
These theories were unknown before 1830. They were popularized by men like Edward Irving, John Darby, C.I. Scofield, Clarence Larkin, Hal Lindsay, Salem Kirban, Tim LaHaye, Bob Jones, John R. Rice, John Walvoord, Dwight Pentecost, Jack Van Impe, etc., etc.

Can we reject Premillennialism as a system of lies?
Absolutely! They show profane disregard for scripture with even the simplest of Bible prophecies i.e. Daniel's 70 weeks and our Lord's Olivet Discourse (Daniel 9:24-27; Matthew 24:1-35).
Though they have more errors than the Gadarene did devils, we will consider only a few big ones!
Scofield and cronies base much of their scheme on unfilled land promises to Israel; but Israel got all the land, and the Lord does not owe them any more; the promise of the land was conditional anyway; and Abraham never wanted it to begin with (Joshua 21:43-45; Neh 9:7-8; Heb 11:8-16).
God was confused and forgot an indeterminate period of time of about 2000 years in the middle of Daniel's 70 weeks, which makes His determination a failure, turns the Messiah into the antichrist, and despises the new covenant, though the New Testament and history shows complete fulfillment.
The Desire of all Nations will come to a millennial temple to give peace, though Paul confirmed the prophecy as fulfilled when writing Israelites, and the house Haggai spoke of was torn apart stone-by-stone by the Romans in 70 A.D. to end any further role for it (Hag 2:6-9; Heb 12:25-29).
The prophesied Elijah the prophet is not really John the Baptist, but the literal Elijah, whom they say will come before the Day of the Lord, just as the Jewish fables prescribed in the days of the apostles (Mal 4:5-6; Matt 11:7-15; 17:10-13; Luke 1:17; John 1:21; Matt 16:14)!
The kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are not the same thing, according to Scofield's notes at Matthew 6:33, in spite of the Bible (Matt 19:23-24; Matt 4:12-17 cp Mar 1:14-15; etc.).
They claim from Matthew 24:14 the gospel must be preached in all the world for a witness before Jesus can return, but the verse applies to the "end" of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., and the gospel was preached in all the world (Mark 16:19-20; Rom 1:8; 10:18; Col 1:6,23; I Tim 3:16).
They teach the abomination of desolation is some one-eyed Cyclops head of the United Nations with a glowing 666 for his heart, but Luke tells us plainly it is Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem (Luke 21:20-22), which Daniel had clarified 500 years earlier (Dan 12:5-13)!
A secret rapture will occur pre-, mid-, or post-tribulation relative to the great tribulation of Matthew 24; but this great tribulation was the tearing down of Jerusalem and temple in 70 A.D., and even if it were not, Jesus Christ does not come until after it occurs anyway (Matt 24:34)!
They say Jesus tried to set up an earthly kingdom, but the Jews refused; we say Jesus did set up His kingdom and crushed the Jews; and His kingdom was pointedly not of this world anyway (Luke 11:20; 16:16; John 6:15; Heb 12:28-29; Matt 21:33-46; 22:1-7; Luke 17:20-21; John 18:36).
The Jews are still God's chosen people and have a preeminent role in the future, in spite of Paul teaching they are a spiritual seed, and the promises are to be understood spiritually in Christ, especially those to Abraham, the father of the Jews (Gal 3:16,38-29; 4:21-31; 6:16; Heb 11:8-16).
They say Jesus Christ will return the second time before the man of sin is revealed, the antichrist to them, even though Paul plainly declared the opposite timing of these events (II Thess 2:1-3)!
They talk of a secret rapture and multiple resurrections, but there is only one resurrection of both wicked and righteous at the same time (John 5:28-29; Acts 24:15; Matt 13:30,40; II Thess 1:7-10).
There is no space for choosing law instead of grace at Sinai, seven dispensations instead of three the Bible recognizes (Rom 5:14), the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of the grace of God are two different gospels (Acts 20:24-25), and a corruption of David's tabernacle (Acts 15:14-16).


I do not agree with everything this man says...but it makes you re-examine what you have heard before.I find Whitelaw a bit harsh, but he did his homework.

 

This Board should be called How to RECKLESSLY Reckon the Seventy Weeks:smilewinkgrin: