Joel 2

[awaken]

Joel 2
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Joel promised an outpouring of the Spirit in the last days...Are we not in the last days?

Shouldn't we look to the prophecies and promises concerning this subject instead of our opinion or traditions?

Prophets and apostles for saw an outpouring of the Holy Spirit, uncluding "all flesh" (all nations) along with "sons and ...daughters..servants and ...handmaids"

Hundreds of years after Joel, when the HS filled believers on Pentecost, Peter stood before the multitude and quoted Joel's prophecy as a fulfullment of the pouring out of the Spirit.
But he changed the wording from "afterward" to "last days"

 

[kyredneck]

Joel 2
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Joel promised an outpouring of the Spirit in the last days...Are we not in the last days?

Shouldn't we look to the prophecies and promises concerning this subject instead of our opinion or traditions?

Wouldn't it be great if everyone did? Imagine the fellowship in the word we could have.

....Peter stood before the multitude and quoted Joel's prophecy as a fulfullment of the pouring out of the Spirit.
But he changed the wording from "afterward" to "last days"

Nah, that wasn't Peter speaking, that literally was the Author of the scriptures doing the expounding, and if He says 'this is what I meant', then we ought to believe Him:

For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father that speaketh in you. Mt 10:20

for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to withstand or to gainsay. Lu 21:15

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4

 

[awaken]

Wouldn't it be great if everyone did? Imagine the fellowship in the word we could have.



Nah, that wasn't Peter speaking, that literally was the Author of the scriptures doing the expounding, and if He says 'this is what I meant', then we ought to believe Him:

For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father that speaketh in you. Mt 10:20

for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to withstand or to gainsay. Lu 21:15

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4

So there is no significance to the word changing? What was prophesied in Joel before the word "afterward"?

 

[kyredneck]

So there is no significance to the word changing? What was prophesied in Joel before the word "afterward"?

Are you referring to the hyperbole of the prophecy as for instance in v 10?:

The earth quaketh before them; the heavens tremble; the sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining. Joel 2:10

Once again, we literally have exposition from the Author of the scriptures:

29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens shall be shaken.
30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13

25 And there shall be signs in sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the billows;
26 men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21

 

[awaken]

Are you referring to the hyperbole of the prophecy as for instance in v 10?:

The earth quaketh before them; the heavens tremble; the sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining. Joel 2:10

Once again, we literally have exposition from the Author of the scriptures:

29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens shall be shaken.
30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13

25 And there shall be signs in sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the billows;
26 men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21

I was talking about Joel 2. What is the prophecy that came before the afterward?

 

[kyredneck]

I was talking about Joel 2. What is the prophecy that came before the afterward?

I used verse 10 of the chapter in Joel to make a point. There's 27 verses before verse 28. Is there a particular passage you wish to focus on? You'll have to tell me, I don't know the point you're wanting to make.

 

[awaken]

I used verse 10 of the chapter in Joel to make a point. There's 27 verses before verse 28. Is there a particular passage you wish to focus on? You'll have to tell me, I don't know the point you're wanting to make.

Joel said that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit would be afterwards, referring to what he prophesied in the previous verses.

Joel promise in Joel 2 was repeated in Acts 2 with the exception of one word that can change the timing of the ourpouring based upon the verses before and afer, or the context of each prophecy.

I see a difference when compariing the timing and context of both passages.

What did Peter refer to as the "last days"?
What did Joel refer to as "afterwards", after what?

I am trying to reconcile these two and keep them in context of the passage. I am searching and sharing what I have come across, hoping someone can shed some insight into my search.

 

[kyredneck]

...I see a difference when compariing the timing and context of both passages.

What did Peter refer to as the "last days"?

The same as here:

1 God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners,
2 hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1

...i.e. the end of the Old Covenant.

What did Joel refer to as "afterwards", after what?

Scroll down and read some commentary from others on this:

http://bible.cc/joel/2-28.htm

I am trying to reconcile these two.....

IMO, when the Author Himself says:

...this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel Acts 2:16

....there's nothing to reconcile.

 

[Yeshua1]

Joel 2
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Joel promised an outpouring of the Spirit in the last days...Are we not in the last days?

Shouldn't we look to the prophecies and promises concerning this subject instead of our opinion or traditions?

Prophets and apostles for saw an outpouring of the Holy Spirit, uncluding "all flesh" (all nations) along with "sons and ...daughters..servants and ...handmaids"

Hundreds of years after Joel, when the HS filled believers on Pentecost, Peter stood before the multitude and quoted Joel's prophecy as a fulfullment of the pouring out of the Spirit.
But he changed the wording from "afterward" to "last days"

peter, under the influence of the HS, spoke that Joel was NOW being fulfilled, that the promise outpouring of the HS happened right now in their hearing/sight!

And last days have been since jesus ascended!

 

[kyredneck]

...And last days have been since jesus ascended!

Show that from scripture? As usual with your posts JF, you've provided none.

 

[Yeshua1]

Show that from scripture? As usual with your posts JF, you've provided none.

Niv hebrews 1
1In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

 

[awaken]

Niv hebrews 1
1In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

I guess you are now going to limit how God speaks to us through His Son!

 

[Yeshua1]

I guess you are now going to limit how God speaks to us through His Son!

No, for God speaks to us thru his Son, IN the Bible!

 

[kyredneck]

Niv hebrews 1
1In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

'In these last days he has spoken to us by his Son" does not mean what you said, "last days have been since jesus ascended".

In the last days of the Old Covenant God spoke to the Hebrew by his Son, i.e. "I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel", [Mt 15:24]

 

[Yeshua1]

'In these last days he has spoken to us by his Son" does not mean what you said, "last days have been since jesus ascended".

In the last days of the Old Covenant God spoke to the Hebrew by his Son, i.e. "I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel", [Mt 15:24]

either way, the last days came upon us when jesus returned to heaven, as he sent back the HS to form the Church, and that put us in last days, age of grace!

 

[awaken]

either way, the last days came upon us when jesus returned to heaven, as he sent back the HS to form the Church, and that put us in last days, age of grace!

If we are in the age of grace since Jesus returned to heaven..why do you want to split it up and say it is two differente ages? Apostles age and church age! It is all the same time!

 

[awaken]

The same as here:

1 God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners,
2 hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1

...i.e. the end of the Old Covenant.



Scroll down and read some commentary from others on this:

http://bible.cc/joel/2-28.htm



IMO, when the Author Himself says:

...this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel Acts 2:16

....there's nothing to reconcile.

That helped...thanks!

 

[awaken]

In context of Joel's prophecy when he wrote,"It shall come to pass afterward," it looks like Joel can be divided up into three chapters...
Chapter 1 is Israel's ruin.
Chapter 2 is Israel's restoration.
Chapter 3 is Irael's revival.

In Joel 2:28-29 it was predicted of the outpouring of the Spirit, Just three verses prior is the announcement of a future restoration (Joel 23-25).

When Joel said the Holy Spirit would be poured out "afterward," he was referring to after Israel experiences her greatest last days of restoration. Israel was brought back from Babylonian captivity, but there is no biblical or historical record of any from of Holy Spirit outpouring after the Jews returned from Babylon to Jerusalem, even up to the writings of Malachi.

Just the rebuilding physically occurred (Ezra and Nehemiah.) It seems that the Joel prophecy was set for the time when Israel is a nation and the Jews return to their land, which in this setting was initiated in 1948. The Jews were scattered over the Gentile nations for 1,878 years. Israel was a nation on May 14, 1948, and restoration of the people and agricultural blessing began from this point forward. What else occured during history at this time that would show the outpouring of the Holy Spirit?

 

[awaken]

Since most of the poster here are into history to prove their Bible doctrine...lets take a look back at 1948...

America entered a most amazing spiritual awakening, stirring all major full gospel denomination from coast to coast. Most people call this the healing revival and it continued for 7 years. Beginning the year of Israel's national restoration in 1948 and continuing until about 1955.

Nineteen years later, in 1967, that the Six-Day war started with Israel and her neighbors. Israel seized East Jerusalem from the nation of Jordan on the third day of the Six-Day War.

Does anyone know what else happened in 1967? The charismatic renewal and it was not just Petecostal or full gospel movement..it was in Catholic and nominal denomination groups.

Joel's predictions revealthat after Israel's restoration God would pour out His Spirit. Is it just a coincidence that the same year Israel was restored as a nation, a great coast-to coast revival of healing was manifested to believers and the charismatic renewal was released by the Holy Spirit?

Peter's statement on the Day of Pentecost was not the final and total fulfillment of Joel's prediction. You would have to ignore significance between the "last days" and "afterward." To relegate the Holy Spirit's outpouring to a one time initial event in Acts chapter 2 misses another important portion of Joel's prophecy, where Joel speaks of the "former rain, and the latter rain" Joel 2:23.

James 5:7 also brings this up..

 

[Yeshua1]

Since most of the poster here are into history to prove their Bible doctrine...lets take a look back at 1948...

America entered a most amazing spiritual awakening, stirring all major full gospel denomination from coast to coast. Most people call this the healing revival and it continued for 7 years. Beginning the year of Israel's national restoration in 1948 and continuing until about 1955.

Nineteen years later, in 1967, that the Six-Day war started with Israel and her neighbors. Israel seized East Jerusalem from the nation of Jordan on the third day of the Six-Day War.

Does anyone know what else happened in 1967? The charismatic renewal and it was not just Petecostal or full gospel movement..it was in Catholic and nominal denomination groups.

Joel's predictions revealthat after Israel's restoration God would pour out His Spirit. Is it just a coincidence that the same year Israel was restored as a nation, a great coast-to coast revival of healing was manifested to believers and the charismatic renewal was released by the Holy Spirit?

Peter's statement on the Day of Pentecost was not the final and total fulfillment of Joel's prediction. You would have to ignore significance between the "last days" and "afterward." To relegate the Holy Spirit's outpouring to a one time initial event in Acts chapter 2 misses another important portion of Joel's prophecy, where Joel speaks of the "former rain, and the latter rain" Joel 2:23.

James 5:7 also brings this up..

latter day rain, manifest sons of god all heretical, and iF you want to claim that the catholic charasmatic 'revival: was of God, then why would he let false teachings/dogmas be still in place? most who got that 'expereince' seemed to have their cathlic views strenghtened, not lessened!