Please explain what James 5:7; Joel 2:23 is referring too?
Maybe if you coud lay off the smart remarks and back up your belief it would help in the debates!
Ohterwise you are just hot air!
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Joel 2
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Maybe if you coud lay off the smart remarks and back up your belief it would help in the debates!
Ohterwise you are just hot air!
James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.Please explain what James 5:7; Joel 2:23 is referring too?
Maybe if you coud lay off the smart remarks and back up your belief it would help in the debates!
Ohterwise you are just hot air!
Learn patience. Be patient for the Lord is coming.
Then he gives an illustration from farming. In Israel there are two seasons when rain comes: early in the year (spring), and later in the year. The farmer had to be patient for the rains to come. If he was going to get a good crop they rains would have to come just at the right time. If he were impatient, he might destroy his crop needlessly. He had to be patient.
Latter rain wasn't meant to be taken as a name for some heretical cult.
Adam Clarke says:
The early and latter rain - The rain of seed time; and the rain of ripening before harvest: the first fell in Judea, about the beginning of November, after the seed was sown; and the second towards the end of April, when the ears were filling, and this prepared for a full harvest. Without these two rains, the earth would have been unfruitful. These God had promised: I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thy oil, De 11:14. But for these they were not only to wait patiently, but also to pray, Ask ye of the Lord rain in the time of the latter rain; so shall the Lord make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field; Zec 10:1.
THis verse reveals the purpose of the early and latter rains: to ripen the fruit- a metaphor for preparing the sould of men and women prior to the return of Chirst. In the New Testament the parables speak of wheat being the children of the kingdom and the tares being the children of Satan, with the angels being the reapers (Matt. 13). It is the rain that causes a productive and full harvest of both grains and fruit bearing trees in Israel. THe outpouring water and rain verses that are in some cases used as a metaphor for the outpouring of th Holy Spirit are important, as the early and latter rain indicate two distinct outpouring of the Holy Spirit.James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
Learn patience. Be patient for the Lord is coming.
Then he gives an illustration from farming. In Israel there are two seasons when rain comes: early in the year (spring), and later in the year. The farmer had to be patient for the rains to come. If he was going to get a good crop they rains would have to come just at the right time. If he were impatient, he might destroy his crop needlessly. He had to be patient.
Latter rain wasn't meant to be taken as a name for some heretical cult.
Adam Clarke says:
Lets not forget Peter saying that in the last days God would POUR out His Spirit upon all flesh.
James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.THis verse reveals the purpose of the early and latter rains: to ripen the fruit- a metaphor for preparing the sould of men and women prior to the return of Chirst. In the New Testament the parables speak of wheat being the children of the kingdom and the tares being the children of Satan, with the angels being the reapers (Matt. 13). It is the rain that causes a productive and full harvest of both grains and fruit bearing trees in Israel. THe outpouring water and rain verses that are in some cases used as a metaphor for the outpouring of th Holy Spirit are important, as the early and latter rain indicate two distinct outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
Lets not forget Peter saying that in the last days God would POUR out His Spirit upon all flesh.
The metaphor had directly to do with the coming of the Lord, and not "two distinct outpouring of the Holy Spirit," as you claim. Just read the context of the verse. It specifically says "the coming of the Lord." Don't read into it that which it does not say.
THis verse reveals the purpose of the early and latter rains: to ripen the fruit- a metaphor for preparing the sould of men and women prior to the return of Chirst. In the New Testament the parables speak of wheat being the children of the kingdom and the tares being the children of Satan, with the angels being the reapers (Matt. 13). It is the rain that causes a productive and full harvest of both grains and fruit bearing trees in Israel. THe outpouring water and rain verses that are in some cases used as a metaphor for the outpouring of th Holy Spirit are important, as the early and latter rain indicate two distinct outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
Lets not forget Peter saying that in the last days God would POUR out His Spirit upon all flesh.
you are spiritualising the text, by reading back into it your charasamtic teachings!
peter quoted Joel as the last days being at that time, as the prophecy was fulfilled at that time!
We have been in last days since time of christ, just much closer to his returning now!
If we are in the last days...the last days prophesy still applies to us!you are spiritualising the text, by reading back into it your charasamtic teachings!
peter quoted Joel as the last days being at that time, as the prophecy was fulfilled at that time!
We have been in last days since time of christ, just much closer to his returning now!
Acts 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:If we are in the last days...the last days prophesy still applies to us!
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
When did those events come?
And what is "that great and notable day of the Lord" that Peter refers to as future?
This has already been discussed in a previous thread! Joels prophesy is only partial complete. YOu have to understand how they laid prophecy out in the OT! Some would come to pass, but not fully! It would unfold in time!Acts 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
When did those events come?
And what is "that great and notable day of the Lord" that Peter refers to as future?
Then you must admit not everything in Acts 2 has been fulfilled.This has already been discussed in a previous thread! Joels prophesy is only partial complete. YOu have to understand how they laid prophecy out in the OT! Some would come to pass, but not fully! It would unfold in time!
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
God's Spirit was not poured out upon all flesh. Those of the Sanhedrin did not trust Christ. With over 100,000 present only 3,000 trusted Christ. Certainly not "All Flesh" received the Spirit.
Their sons and daughters did not prophesy at that time, and their young men did not see visions, and their old men did not dream dreams. All these things are yet to come.
There was only a small partial fulfillment of that prophesy. The greater part of that prophecy will come to pass after the Tribulation.
Well..ALL FLESH..are you saying that the Holy Spirit is not offered to all?Then you must admit not everything in Acts 2 has been fulfilled.
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
God's Spirit was not poured out upon all flesh. Those of the Sanhedrin did not trust Christ. With over 100,000 present only 3,000 trusted Christ. Certainly not "All Flesh" received the Spirit.
Their sons and daughters did not prophesy at that time, and their young men did not see visions, and their old men did not dream dreams. All these things are yet to come.
There was only a small partial fulfillment of that prophesy. The greater part of that prophecy will come to pass after the Tribulation.
What scripture do you have to prove the rest will be AFTER the tribulation?
Well..ALL FLESH..are you saying that the Holy Spirit is not offered to all?
What scripture do you have to prove the rest will be AFTER the tribulation?
DHK os referring to the Millinium reign of christ upon earth, when the lord will be ruling directly over ALL nations and peoples, in the messianic kingdom of jesus Christ!
So now you both are saying that the Holy Spirit is not offered to all flesh???DHK os referring to the Millinium reign of christ upon earth, when the lord will be ruling directly over ALL nations and peoples, in the messianic kingdom of jesus Christ!
Are you answering DHK's post now?
So now you both are saying that the Holy Spirit is not offered to all flesh???
Are you answering DHK's post now?
saying the ultimate fulfillment of the Joel prophecy will NOT be until time of the second coming of Christ!
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:Well..ALL FLESH..are you saying that the Holy Spirit is not offered to all?
What scripture do you have to prove the rest will be AFTER the tribulation?
Does the Scripture say OFFER?
Or does the Scripture say "WILL POUR out my Spirit on ALL FLESH?
Which one?
IMO, you are deliberately trying to change the Scripture to make it fit your theology which started from 1905 and before that time was known only in paganism. Why would you believe something with a track record like that?
I already stated that! But Peter let us know what they heard and saw was Joel being fulfilled! Does that leave you to decide which one was seen and heard? Can you not read back and see that it was the Holy Spirit! THat the promise was to them and to there children...AND TO ANYONE THAT THE LORD CALLS!saying the ultimate fulfillment of the Joel prophecy will NOT be until time of the second coming of Christ!
Can we not tell which ones are yet to come? It is not the pouring out of the Holy Spirit! Because that happen right before there eyes and ears!
It is available to all flesh (races)Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Does the Scripture say OFFER?
Or does the Scripture say "WILL POUR out my Spirit on ALL FLESH?
Which one?
IMO, you are deliberately trying to change the Scripture to make it fit your theology which started from 1905 and before that time was known only in paganism. Why would you believe something with a track record like that?
It is available to all flesh (races)
peter said that the ultimate fulfillment of joel would be when the HS is poured out upon ALL flesh!
has that ever happened since pentacost in the earth?
Do you hold the 1905 date as the time of a "second pentacost" that God fulfilled now the Joel prophecy regarding pouring out His Spirit on all flesh?
I believe the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Day of Pentecost, to remain with the church until it is complete and presented to the Lord Jesus as His coming. Just as Christ finished the work on earth He came to do in teh flesh, so the Holy Spirit will finish the work He came to do in the church!peter said that the ultimate fulfillment of joel would be when the HS is poured out upon ALL flesh!
has that ever happened since pentacost in the earth?
Do you hold the 1905 date as the time of a "second pentacost" that God fulfilled now the Joel prophecy regarding pouring out His Spirit on all flesh?
It was poured out on the Day of Pentecost! He never left! He is still here available to all flesh! Just because he was poured out does not mean all receive him...did the people that accused them of being drunk receive Him? Some will mock the manifestations of the Holy Spirit!
I believe the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Day of Pentecost, to remain with the church until it is complete and presented to the Lord Jesus as His coming. Just as Christ finished the work on earth He came to do in teh flesh, so the Holy Spirit will finish the work He came to do in the church!
It was poured out on the Day of Pentecost! He never left! He is still here available to all flesh! Just because he was poured out does not mean all receive him...did the people that accused them of being drunk receive Him? Some will mock the manifestations of the Holy Spirit!
do you hold to either the Kingdom Now beliefs, or else the Latter day rain?
By the latter rain do you mean the Holy Spirit poured out right before the Lord comes?do you hold to either the Kingdom Now beliefs, or else the Latter day rain?
Not sure what you mean by kingdom now beliefs??