Two baptisms: Which is which?

[awaken]

Heb. 10:1 tells us that all the ritual and ceremonial washings of the OT were symbolic in nature and were a precursor to the greater reality of the inner cleansing by the Messiah's work and baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Hebrew 9
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings(baptismos), and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Does this verse not say that the "external regualtions" like water baptism applied only until the time of reformation? When did this began?

 

[DHK]

Heb. 10:1 tells us that all the ritual and ceremonial washings of the OT were symbolic in nature and were a precursor to the greater reality of the inner cleansing by the Messiah's work and baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Hebrew 9
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings(baptismos), and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Does this verse not say that the "external regualtions" like water baptism applied only until the time of reformation? When did this began?

There is no water baptism in this verse. You even changed the wording and inserted baptism at your own will and wish--another example of distorting the Word of God.
It means what it says: "diverse washings," not baptism.
They were ceremonial washing of hands and perhaps even feet, as Jesus did in John 13. There many different kinds (divers) washinngs that the Jews went through before temple worship. They did not baptize.

 

[awaken]

There is no water baptism in this verse. You even changed the wording and inserted baptism at your own will and wish--another example of distorting the Word of God.
It means what it says: "diverse washings," not baptism.
They were ceremonial washing of hands and perhaps even feet, as Jesus did in John 13. There many different kinds (divers) washinngs that the Jews went through before temple worship. They did not baptize.

Hebrews 9:10 mentions "various ceremonial washings" in the Law, and the Greek word for "washings" there is "baptisms." God could have easily used one of several other Greek words, such as pluno, which is used of washing inanimate things; nipto, used of washing a part of the body; or louo, which means "to bathe" or "to wash the entire body." Instead, He chose "baptisms" to refer to the OT washings.

YOu did not even answer the question I asked...you are so bent on proving my every word wrong!

When did this began? (time of reformation)

 

[evangelist-7]

... you are so bent on proving my every word wrong!
When did this begin?

Ever since I arrived here! ... and 'tis bin very amusing ... pathetic, but very amusing ... the whole ride!
Praise the Lord!
.

 

[DHK]

Hebrews 9:10 mentions "various ceremonial washings" in the Law, and the Greek word for "washings" there is "baptisms." God could have easily used one of several other Greek words, such as pluno, which is used of washing inanimate things; nipto, used of washing a part of the body; or louo, which means "to bathe" or "to wash the entire body." Instead, He chose "baptisms" to refer to the OT washings.

YOu did not even answer the question I asked...you are so bent on proving my every word wrong!

When did this began? (time of reformation)

You are the one that gets hung up on words. Why don't you do a bit of research for yourself. Words have more than one meaning. The KJV translation is correct. It refers to ceremonial washings. If you want to know why the Holy Spirit didn't use a different word, when you get to heaven, you can ask him. That is His prerogative. He is God. He can use the words that he chooses to use.

Since you don't study the verse for yourself you don't know what it means.
It is quite evident that the "time of reformation," is the cross when these ceremonial washings and other rituals were done away with. Another translation puts it this way:

(CEV) These rules are merely about such things as eating and drinking and ceremonies for washing ourselves. And rules about physical things will last only until the time comes to change them for something better.

Something better came at the cross. Throughout the author contrasts the OT levitical system with the NT grace--that which Christ gives at the cross. Read the chapter and see. Something better came at the cross.

 

[awaken]

You are the one that gets hung up on words. Why don't you do a bit of research for yourself. Words have more than one meaning. The KJV translation is correct. It refers to ceremonial washings. If you want to know why the Holy Spirit didn't use a different word, when you get to heaven, you can ask him. That is His prerogative. He is God. He can use the words that he chooses to use.

Since you don't study the verse for yourself you don't know what it means.
It is quite evident that the "time of reformation," is the cross when these ceremonial washings and other rituals were done away with. Another translation puts it this way:

(CEV) These rules are merely about such things as eating and drinking and ceremonies for washing ourselves. And rules about physical things will last only until the time comes to change them for something better.

Something better came at the cross. Throughout the author contrasts the OT levitical system with the NT grace--that which Christ gives at the cross. Read the chapter and see. Something better came at the cross.

I have studied it out!
Baptism means "to dip:=" or "to immerse," and does not in any way indicate the substance or element into which something is immersed. In reality, the word "baptism" is not a translation, but a transliteration into English of the Greek words baptismos (noun) and baptizo (verb). Now..Look again at verse 10 above!!!

I never stated when the "time of reformation" begin. I ask the question, so you do not have to get so demeaning about it!

I do believe that it was when Jesus made available an internal cleansing by his virgin birth, sinless life, death, resurrection, ascension, and giving of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost.

In 1 Peter 3:20-21 it says that the baptism that now saves you is NOT water baptism, but rather something that touches you on the inside, even your conscience. Jesus Christ is the baptizer with the holy Spirit.

 

[awaken]

After Jesus resurrected and before his ascension, Jesus appeared to “the eleven” on a number of occasions and instructed them about many things. Mark 16 is why most Christians believe that baptism saves us. But does it say baptized in water?

The book of Acts begins with Jesus talking to his disciples during the same period of time. He had told them about a new spiritual program so to speak, the coming of "time of reformation” or some say “new order” where the spirit of God (the comforter) would be personally present with each of them.

Acts 1
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many * * days hence.

Jesus himself named two baptisms the one that Acts is speaking of is the Holy Ghost baptism.

So which one do you think is the One baptism mentioned in Ephesians 4?

If the one baptism for Christians is Spirit baptism, why did God specifically make the point that Apollos knew only the baptism of John?

 

[DHK]

I have studied it out!
Baptism means "to dip:=" or "to immerse," and does not in any way indicate the substance or element into which something is immersed. In reality, the word "baptism" is not a translation, but a trasliteration into English of the Greek words baptismos (nown) and baptizo (verb).

That is the primary meaning. However it is sometimes translated "to wash." There are other references in the Bible when it refers to the washing of tables, and other things. As I said: "Words have more than one meaning." Its primary meaning is not being used here. There is no baptism here. It is speaking of ceremonial washings. The context is clear. A word is defined by its context. Look at the CEV translation I gave you. That makes it even clearer.

Now..Look again at verse 10 above!!!

I never stated when the "time of reformation" begin. I ask the question, so you do not have to get so demeaning about it!

I do believe that it was when Jesus made available an internal cleansing by his virgin birth, sinless life, death, resurrection, ascension, and giving of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost.

In 1 Peter 3:20-21 it says that the baptism that now saves you is NOT water baptism, but rather something that touches you on the inside, even your conscience. Jesus Christ is the baptizer with the holy Spirit.

The verse doesn't teach that baptism saves unless you have become a Oneness Pentecostal.
The verse does not teach Holy Spirit baptism.
It starts out "In like figure" meaning that it is a picture of something already described, that is referring back to Noah and the destruction at the Flood. What did water represent. It represented total destruction. Noah was saved OUT OF the water. The water did not save him; it would have destroyed him. What saved Noah. It was the ark. And the ark was a picture of Christ. The ark was above the water, floated on the water.

In like figure, being immersed in the sea of destruction, the water that represents the world, we are saved by Christ's resurrection. Study the verse carefully. It says nothing about Spirit baptism. Water is symbolic of destruction if anything. The only thing that water can do is wash away the filth of the flesh, such as you do when you wash your hands. And that is what the verse says. It is belief in the resurrection of Christ that saves. That is also what the verse says.

 

[awaken]

That is the primary meaning. However it is sometimes translated "to wash." There are other references in the Bible when it refers to the washing of tables, and other things. As I said: "Words have more than one meaning." Its primary meaning is not being used here. There is no baptism here. It is speaking of ceremonial washings. The context is clear. A word is defined by its context. Look at the CEV translation I gave you. That makes it even clearer.

Then why didn't it mention the words that mean that! I posted them earlier!

The verse doesn't teach that baptism saves unless you have become a Oneness Pentecostal.
The verse does not teach Holy Spirit baptism.
It starts out "In like figure" meaning that it is a picture of something already described, that is referring back to Noah and the destruction at the Flood. What did water represent. It represented total destruction. Noah was saved OUT OF the water. The water did not save him; it would have destroyed him. What saved Noah. It was the ark. And the ark was a picture of Christ. The ark was above the water, floated on the water.

In like figure, being immersed in the sea of destruction, the water that represents the world, we are saved by Christ's resurrection. Study the verse carefully. It says nothing about Spirit baptism. Water is symbolic of destruction if anything. The only thing that water can do is wash away the filth of the flesh, such as you do when you wash your hands. And that is what the verse says. It is belief in the resurrection of Christ that saves. That is also what the verse says.

I never said it did say that! you are reading into my post something I did not say! Missing the point!

 

[DHK]

So which one do you think is the One baptism mentioned in Ephesians 4?

He is probably referring to that which is received by every believer at the time of conversion. Not every believe goes on and is obedient in water baptism, but every believer is baptized by the Spirit when he is saved.

If the one baptism for Christians is Spirit baptism, why did God specifically make the point that Apollos knew only the baptism of John?

As has been noted several times before, the book of Acts is a book of transition between the Old and the New. John's baptism was an OT baptism that looked forward to the cross. Apollos preached Christ, but his teaching was incomplete. Read further. Aquilla and Priscilla had to take him aside and teach him more fully about the doctrines of Christ.

 

[awaken]

He is probably referring to that which is received by every believer at the time of conversion. Not every believe goes on and is obedient in water baptism, but every believer is baptized by the Spirit when he is saved.

As has been noted several times before, the book of Acts is a book of transition between the Old and the New. John's baptism was an OT baptism that looked forward to the cross. Apollos preached Christ, but his teaching was incomplete. Read further. Aquilla and Priscilla had to take him aside and teach him more fully about the doctrines of Christ.

The book of Acts is NOT JUST a book of transition! If any part of the Bible is transition it would be the life of Christ getting the disciples ready to receive and carry out the great commission! After Acts...we are the church that was started in Acts and will continue until Jesus returns!

We do agree on the baptism of the Holy Spirit being the one baptism.
The water baptism was only a type and indicator of the great baptism of the holy Spirit that was to come, the one baptism for the Church.

 

[DHK]

The book of Acts is NOT JUST a book of transition! If any part of the Bible is transition it would be the life of Christ getting the disciples ready to receive and carry out the great commission! After Acts...we are the church that was started in Acts and will continue until Jesus returns!

A book of transition; a book of history.
A book of the "acts" of the Apostles.
A book of the history of the early church.
A book of the history of the church as it transitions from the OT to the NT, but is not yet fully formed.
At the first it meets in the Temple, and then in the synagogues. By the end it is meeting in homes and in prisons.
At the first it is meeting daily, and then on the Sabbath, and at the end on the first day of the week.
At the first the church is 100% Jewish, and then it included Samaritans, and then the gospel went to the Gentiles, and at the end it spread to Rome.
This is a history book; a history of a church in transition.

We do agree on the baptism of the Holy Spirit being the one baptism.
The water baptism was only a type and indicator of the great baptism of the holy Spirit that was to come, the one baptism for the Church.

No it isn't. The two are not related.
If you want to know the purpose of water baptism study Romans 6:3,4

 

[Yeshua1]

The book of Acts is NOT JUST a book of transition! If any part of the Bible is transition it would be the life of Christ getting the disciples ready to receive and carry out the great commission! After Acts...we are the church that was started in Acts and will continue until Jesus returns!

We do agree on the baptism of the Holy Spirit being the one baptism.
The water baptism was only a type and indicator of the great baptism of the holy Spirit that was to come, the one baptism for the Church.

what was recorded down by Dr Luke was an account that described all that actually happened, but some was just descriptive for back then, and some to still be applied right now!

Need to take the Epistles to see which are to be seen as being just back there, and what was meant to carry on forward!

 

[awaken]

what was recorded down by Dr Luke was an account that described all that actually happened, but some was just descriptive for back then, and some to still be applied right now!

Need to take the Epistles to see which are to be seen as being just back there, and what was meant to carry on forward!

...and I guess you want me to take your word for what is for today and what is not????

 

[Yeshua1]

The book of Acts is NOT JUST a book of transition! If any part of the Bible is transition it would be the life of Christ getting the disciples ready to receive and carry out the great commission! After Acts...we are the church that was started in Acts and will continue until Jesus returns!

We do agree on the baptism of the Holy Spirit being the one baptism.
The water baptism was only a type and indicator of the great baptism of the holy Spirit that was to come, the one baptism for the Church.

ALL of us that were saved have been 'baptized" by the HS into the body of Christ, so NO second act of him doing anything with the saved, just need to stay refilled with Him daily basis!

 

[awaken]

ALL of us that were saved have been 'baptized" by the HS into the body of Christ, so NO second act of him doing anything with the saved, just need to stay refilled with Him daily basis!

Well I guess the Samaitians did not know that because AFTER they believed and baptised they laid hands on them to RECEIVE the HOly Ghost!

 

[Yeshua1]

Well I guess the Samaitians did not know that because AFTER they believed and baptised they laid hands on them to RECEIVE the HOly Ghost!

It wasduring a transistion period in church history, for god had the Apsotles go down and lay hands on them to show that even they could be saved, not just the Jews by yeshua!

NOW, ALL receive the HS when they believe, NO delay!

 

[TCassidy]

The bible is very clear, Ephesians 4:5 "one Lord, one faith, one baptism."

Anyone who believes in more than one baptism is a heretic and anti-bible.

The "one baptism" is the water baptism wherein we publicly display our faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

There is a HUGE difference between baptism and filling. Baptism is you in the water. Filling is the water in you.

Some say that we are baptized by the Holy Spirit at the time of our conversion but that is a misunderstanding of the term "baptidzo." What is being taught is that, at the time of our conversion, the Holy Spirit places us in the Body of Christ, and immerses us into His church, work, and ministry.

One Lord. One faith. One baptism.

 

[Yeshua1]

The bible is very clear, Ephesians 4:5 "one Lord, one faith, one baptism."

Anyone who believes in more than one baptism is a heretic and anti-bible.

The "one baptism" is the water baptism wherein we publicly display our faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

There is a HUGE difference between baptism and filling. Baptism is you in the water. Filling is the water in you.

Some say that we are baptized by the Holy Spirit at the time of our conversion but that is a misunderstanding of the term "baptidzo." What is being taught is that, at the time of our conversion, the Holy Spirit places us in the Body of Christ, and immerses us into His church, work, and ministry.

One Lord. One faith. One baptism.

Perfect! We are ALL under that same baptism, as the bible commands us to be refilling with the HS, NOT to seek another act of Grace "baptism in Holy Ghost"

 

[awaken]

It wasduring a transistion period in church history, for god had the Apsotles go down and lay hands on them to show that even they could be saved, not just the Jews by yeshua!

NOW, ALL receive the HS when they believe, NO delay!

THey believed and were baptized before they laid hands on them..before they received the Holy Spirit!

Jesus walking and teaching the disciples was the transitional period! Acts is them walking out what Jesus died and rose for them to have!
You calling Acts a transitional period is a way for you to keep your theories!