This is another question. And this time you answer is found in John 3.
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Two baptisms: Which is which?
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This is another question. And this time you answer is found in John 3.
IF (as some say) John's baptism was good enough and accepted by Jesus for the apostles,
Jesus never "accepted John's baptism ... for the apostles". He gave the apostles command to "baptise IN THE NAME // WITH THE NAME" of God, God the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
John TOLD us this; he "bare record": "I am come baptizing WITH WATER that He [Jesus] should be made MANIFEST TO ISRAEL ... the same ... the Son of God ... is He which baptizeth WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT."
Jesus' COMMANDED baptism to the APOSTLES, is no baptism with or in water! Baptism with water STOPPED with John the Baptist's attestation of Jesus Christ to ISRAEL. And Jesus the Resurrected gave the APOSTLES order to baptize "ALL NATIONS" with his, baptism—the Baptism of the Holy Spirit—IN THE NAME of God.
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Ok, I can see this! ONe more question...Jesus never "accepted John's baptism ... for the apostles". He gave the apostles command to "baptise IN THE NAME // WITH THE NAME" of God, God the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
John TOLD us this; he "bare record": "I am come baptizing WITH WATER that He [Jesus] should be made MANIFEST TO ISRAEL ... the same ... the Son of God is He which baptizeth WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT."
Jesus' COMMANDED baptism to the APOSTLES, is no baptism with or in water! Baptism with water STOPPED with John the Baptist's attestation of Jesus Christ to ISRAEL. And Jesus the Resurrected gave the APOSTLES order to baptize "ALL NATIONS" with his, baptism--the Baptism of the Holy Spirit IN THE NAME of God.
I thought only Jesus could baptize us with the Holy Spirit. Can man baptize people with the Holy Spirit?
Sorry for all the questions...but I learn by asking question...
So are you now saying that Jesus did not send the promise on the Day of Pentecost? Peter said in vs. "But THIS (what is the this?) is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;" It was what the crowd was witnessing and making fun of!
You are right; and Yeshua1 is wrong!
Ok, I can see this! ONe more question...
I thought only Jesus could baptize us with the Holy Spirit. Can man baptize people with the Holy Spirit?
Jesus' command to the apostles was to "baptise in the NAME" and Jesus did the baptizing in or with the Holy Spirit Himself. That is how I understand it ... not to say it's generally accepted.
"man" cannot do what Jesus commanded the apostles. Only the apostles were the chosen for the task to 'plant' the Christian Faith through their proclamation teaching and example. No second generation or later generations of 'apostles' are true apostles; they are self-appointed and therefore FALSE apostles.
A few persons were relegated by the [original] apostles to help them in their task; but the real authority STILL rested with the apostles; these 'delegates' could not empower any thirds-in-the-row of Jesus' personal appointed apostles.
I run when I hear someone is an apostle of Jesus.
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The beginning was fulfilled that day! Joel's prophesy covered a period of time! The end of the last days are not here yet. Well, we might be living in them right now...so the end of Joel 2 could be fulfilled in our lifetime!
But the Baptism of the hOly Spirit was not just for the apostles or just for those associated with them! THe promise was for ALL that God callls!
WHERE in the NT does it command us to be baptized in the HS though? MY Bible states that ALL are indwelt by same Spirit, and are commanded to be refilled by Him daily!
Where is the second act apart from when He comes to all of us at salvation?
THere is no command! We are to ask..but not commanded to ask!WHERE in the NT does it command us to be baptized in the HS though? MY Bible states that ALL are indwelt by same Spirit, and are commanded to be refilled by Him daily!
Where is the second act apart from when He comes to all of us at salvation?
THere is no command! We are to ask..but not commanded to ask!
Ask for what? the message of the Apsotles was receive jesus, you will then get the HS, and ALL partake of that whebn saved, NO extra anything was to be seen needed or available after that!
Jesus never "accepted John's baptism ... for the apostles". He gave the apostles command to "baptise IN THE NAME // WITH THE NAME" of God, God the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
John TOLD us this; he "bare record": "I am come baptizing WITH WATER that He [Jesus] should be made MANIFEST TO ISRAEL ... the same ... the Son of God ... is He which baptizeth WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT."
Jesus' COMMANDED baptism to the APOSTLES, is no baptism with or in water! Baptism with water STOPPED with John the Baptist's attestation of Jesus Christ to ISRAEL. And Jesus the Resurrected gave the APOSTLES order to baptize "ALL NATIONS" with his, baptism—the Baptism of the Holy Spirit—IN THE NAME of God.
NO! The early church contunued to water baptize converts byImmersion into/unto the Father/Son/HS, it was an ordinance established by Christ, not "Spirit baptism" being referred to here in Great commission!
WHERE in the NT does it command us to be baptized in the HS though? MY Bible states that ALL are indwelt by same Spirit, and are commanded to be refilled by Him daily!
Where is the second act apart from when He comes to all of us at salvation?
You are right, 'we', definitely are NOT >>command(ed) to be baptized in the HS<< as though it depended on ‘us’ >>to be baptized in the HS<<.
Christ also did NOT commission / command the APOSTLES >>to baptize in the Holy Spirit<<; He commissioned / commanded them [and nobody else ever], to “baptise IN THE NAME—of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit”.
Christ in fact every time and in every case through his Holy Spirit actually commanded the APOSTLES when they had to baptise anyone whom HE HIMSELF would have baptised “WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT” before, while or after the apostles through PROCLAMATION would baptise them “IN THE NAME”.
"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)
"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)
It says not 'ask the Father the Holy Spirit'!
When Jesus taught his disciples to pray, did He say, Pray the Father for the Holy Spirit?!
No! But God answers every prayer He answers with the Holy Spirit and the consolation of "The Comforter".
True believers do not pray God for the Holy Spirit knowing that God's giving his Holy Spirit is why they pray already; that the Holy Spirit is a priori and unquestionable—FREE at GOD'S and no man's demand or command—because the Holy Spirit of God is The Promise of His Faithfulness through and in and for the sake of Jesus Christ God's Son.
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Seems pretty plain to me...he said how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)
It says not 'ask the Father the Holy Spirit'!
When Jesus taught his disciples to pray, did He say, Pray the Father for the Holy Spirit?!
No! But God answers every prayer He answers with the Holy Spirit and the consolation of "The Comforter".
True believers do not pray God for the Holy Spirit knowing that God's giving his Holy Spirit is why they pray already; that the Holy Spirit is a priori and unquestionable—FREE at GOD'S and no man's demand or command—because the Holy Spirit of God is The Promise of His Faithfulness through and in and for the sake of Jesus Christ God's Son.
"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)
the "Gift of the HS" is what the father grants to ALL when he saves them, its the presense of the HS now indwelling ALL Chrsitians!
jesus is NOT advocating here that there is an extra gift from the HS after being saved!
Jesus never "accepted John's baptism ... for the apostles". He gave the apostles command to "baptise IN THE NAME // WITH THE NAME" of God, God the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
John TOLD us this; he "bare record": "I am come baptizing WITH WATER that He [Jesus] should be made MANIFEST TO ISRAEL ... the same ... the Son of God ... is He which baptizeth WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT."
Jesus' COMMANDED baptism to the APOSTLES, is no baptism with or in water! Baptism with water STOPPED with John the Baptist's attestation of Jesus Christ to ISRAEL. And Jesus the Resurrected gave the APOSTLES order to baptize "ALL NATIONS" with his, baptism—the Baptism of the Holy Spirit—IN THE NAME of God.
Are you saying that water baptism was NOT for the church, but was JUST for the church in Acts?
Are you a Hyper Dispy?
“According to their deeds: accordingly, will He repay: fury to his adversaries: recompense, to his enemies. [“According to their deeds”, men are always the enemies of God.] To the islands, will He repay: recompense! So, shall they fear the NAME of the LORD-from-the-West : the GLORY of the LORD-from-the-Rising-of-the-Sun.”
When the enemy shall come in like a flood [at the Jonas-Paschal Suffering and Crucifixion of Jesus Christ] the Spirit-of-the-LORD shall LIFT [HIM] UP [RAISE HIM UP FROM THE DEAD :] STANDARD [Judge] AGAINST [the enemy]—THE REDEEMER!
He—the Redeemer—shall come [“from the dead”] to Zion : “to the Mount Zion the City of the LIVING GOD the HEAVENLY Jerusalem The General Assembly and CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN [of God]. He shall come [“…in the flesh”] : Jesus Christ The Risen : “GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL— He shall come Judge of the spirits of just men made perfect— He shall come JESUS the MEDIATOR of the NEW Covenant.”
“The Redeemer shall come to Zion unto THEM who turn from transgression [“against” Him the Covenant] in Jacob, SAITH THE LORD [“saith the LORD” by The Word of God, Jesus Christ].
“As for ME [“saith the LORD” through Jesus Christ], THIS MY COVENANT with them [the Covenant of “God with us” … “in Christ”] : MY SPIRIT that is upon THEE, and my words which I have put in THY mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor shall my words depart out of the mouth [proclamation] of thy seed [the New Testament Church]. It is The Word of the LORD from HENCEFORTH and FOREVER.”
Jesus Christ the Risen from the dead, is, the—of old—“New Covenant-of-God” IN TIME AND ETERNITY, “once for all” RATIFIED. And the Spirit of his New Covenant is “MY SPIRIT”, “the Spirit of God”, “the Spirit of Christ”—“Life-Giving-Spirit”; is, “from henceforth and forever” JESUS’ Spirit : the Spirit GOD—God’s ETERNAL, never changeable, “NEW Covenant’s” “Spirit”; IS, the Spirit of ‘The Covenant of Grace’. The Spirit of ‘The Covenant of Grace’ is never, the spirit of man!
When the enemy shall come in like a flood [at the Jonas-Paschal Suffering and Crucifixion of Jesus Christ] the Spirit-of-the-LORD shall LIFT [HIM] UP [RAISE HIM UP FROM THE DEAD :] STANDARD [Judge] AGAINST [the enemy]—THE REDEEMER!
He—the Redeemer—shall come [“from the dead”] to Zion : “to the Mount Zion the City of the LIVING GOD the HEAVENLY Jerusalem The General Assembly and CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN [of God]. He shall come [“…in the flesh”] : Jesus Christ The Risen : “GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL— He shall come Judge of the spirits of just men made perfect— He shall come JESUS the MEDIATOR of the NEW Covenant.”
“The Redeemer shall come to Zion unto THEM who turn from transgression [“against” Him the Covenant] in Jacob, SAITH THE LORD [“saith the LORD” by The Word of God, Jesus Christ].
“As for ME [“saith the LORD” through Jesus Christ], THIS MY COVENANT with them [the Covenant of “God with us” … “in Christ”] : MY SPIRIT that is upon THEE, and my words which I have put in THY mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor shall my words depart out of the mouth [proclamation] of thy seed [the New Testament Church]. It is The Word of the LORD from HENCEFORTH and FOREVER.”
Jesus Christ the Risen from the dead, is, the—of old—“New Covenant-of-God” IN TIME AND ETERNITY, “once for all” RATIFIED. And the Spirit of his New Covenant is “MY SPIRIT”, “the Spirit of God”, “the Spirit of Christ”—“Life-Giving-Spirit”; is, “from henceforth and forever” JESUS’ Spirit : the Spirit GOD—God’s ETERNAL, never changeable, “NEW Covenant’s” “Spirit”; IS, the Spirit of ‘The Covenant of Grace’. The Spirit of ‘The Covenant of Grace’ is never, the spirit of man!
Are you saying that water baptism was NOT for the church, but was JUST for the church in Acts?
Are you a Hyper Dispy?
I don't even know what a >Hyper Dispy< is!
No; I am an old ['orthodox'] Calvinist up in arms against Roman Catholic relics that remained in Protestantism, one of the three most important being 'water-baptism'.
So yes, I am saying that baptism was for JUST the apostolic Church—>the church in Acts<. But again, No! I am not saying >water baptism<; I say that to "BAPTIZE IN THE NAME"—NOT >water baptism<—, >was for JUST the Church in Acts<!
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the "Gift of the HS" is what the father grants to ALL when he saves them, its the presense of the HS now indwelling ALL Chrsitians!
jesus is NOT advocating here that there is an extra gift from the HS after being saved!
>the "Gift of the HS"<?? Scripture?
No; all "good gifts" is what He grants his children when the Father answers the prayers of those who “ask Him”.
It is not >the presense of the HS< or, >the HS now indwelling ALL Christians< that is the ‘gift’---and yet it is, as I said before, God answers every prayer He answers with the Holy Spirit and the consolation of "The Comforter".
Seems pretty plain to me...he said how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)
It is not 'pretty clear'; on the contrary, you disregard Jesus' mention of "good gifts"; in a word, “If you then, though you are EVIL, know how to give GOOD gifts to your children, how much more will your [GOOD] Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those [children] who ask Him [good gifts]!”
You must be a child before you have any right to ask, and that right of CHILDHOOD TO ASK is the first “good gift” GIVEN WITHOUT the child ever having ASKED for it; but he was “chosen” and then “adopted” through pure Grace born of the sheer love of God. Salvation is UNCONDITIONAL—the ‘U’ in ‘TULIP’.
To ask for the Holy Spirit unless one might receive Him is just covert free-will heresy.