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While speaking in tounges....
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
Clearly, Salty. The classic example is the orthodox Assembly of God and the cultic United Pentecostal Church. Since the UPC is demonic, those people must be speaking in the tongues of fallen angels.
Salty, you are getting me into more trouble by my posting on the perpetuity of spiritual gifts, aren't you? You see why I am always in hot water? (It does keep me clean.) Now I am going to excommunicated from the Baptist Board.... :tonofbricks:
Salty, you are getting me into more trouble by my posting on the perpetuity of spiritual gifts, aren't you? You see why I am always in hot water? (It does keep me clean.) Now I am going to excommunicated from the Baptist Board.... :tonofbricks:
There must be an interpreter when we gather together! We ourselves are to ask for the interpretation (1 Cor. 14:13)
1 Cor. 14:28 states that if there is no interpreter let the one speaking in tongues keep silent IN CHURCH. He is to speak to himself (quietly) and to God!
NO scriptures indicate one can personal tongue outsid of the church assembling, and there is no scripture that states it even continued past the time of the Apsotles!
So you are saying NONE of the manifestations of the Spirit can be outside the gathering together? Or just tongues? How do you come to this conclusion by the scriptures?
Do you believe tongues is a language where the Holy Spirit gives the utterance?
I answered you. I cited the Assembly of God as speaking in tongues, as we all know, and the United Pentecostal Church, a cult (Jesus Only), as also speaking in demonic tongues. I am saying that there are legitimate tongues and there are demonic ones, such as you suggest where they probably are talking as the devil does. I have two questions for you: Why would Satan imitate something that was not real? (There are private prayer languages, we all agree.) Secondly, are you trying to get me excommunicated? :laugh:
saying that those manifestations happened in a local assemblr/church in Apsotolic times, and IF one had gift of tongues, was to be given in a public hashion, and to be interpreted!
Don't think that stuff happens now though!
It was a definite language given/imparted by the HS to allow one to preach/proclaim Christ, to exhort and encourage etc but NOT for today!
So you do not have scripture to prove your theory?
NO personal prayer tongues in the bible though, as it was given to be used in a public setting, and not needed for today!
1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
--This is the second time the gifts are listed in this chapter. Notice he specifically says "in the church" (assembly). They were for use in the local church only, not at home, not for any other use. They were only for the edification of the members of the local church.
--Secondly, notice that they are all stated in order of importance: "first, secondarily, thirdly, after that, then..."
The least important of all the gifts are tongues. That is what he puts last. Yet, the Corinthians, and the Charismatic movement make it the most important gift, some making it so important as to make salvation impossible without it. It is the least important of all the gifts.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
--These are all rhetorical questions, and as such all demand the same answer. The answer is "NO!"
No, not all are apostles. There are only 12.
No, not all are able to prophesy.
No, not all are able to teach.
No, not all have the gift of miracles.
No not all have the gift of healing.
No, not all have the gift of tongues.
--Therefore stop seeking gifts that you do not have!
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
"A more excellent way" is in chapter 13, which is love.
Paul is saying that "love" is more important and better or far more superior than all of the spiritual gifts put together. If there is no love, your salvation is in question.
DHK listed them!
Again, the HS has ordained that after the Apsotolic Age expired, his ongoing revealtions ceased to the church, as did his giving to saints gifts as Apsotles had, as we now have the more sure word of the bible!
You post without evidence in the Word!
1 Corinthians 14
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
DOES IT SAY WE CAN NOT SPEAK TO GOD OUTSIDE THE CHURH? NO!!!
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
DOES IT SAY WE CAN NOT SING OR PRAY OUTSIDE THE CHURCH? NO!
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest ?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
DOES IT SAY WE CAN NOT GIVE THANKS OUTSIDE THE CHURCH? NO!
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
DOES IT SAY WE CAN NOT SPEAK TO GOD OUTSIDE THE CHURCH? NO!
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
DO YOU FORBID TONGUES? YES!
This is just one manifestation of the HOly Spirit! I could go through them all and prove that they can be done outside the assembly.
Now if you can address them and prove otherwise WITHOUT your theories...have at it!
I will agree that Paul is addressing the assembly and correcting the wrong! But NOWHERE does he forbid any of it outside the gathering! Especially prayer!
I also addressed them and kept them in context of the chapter!
the guidelines God provided were for the assembling of the believers together, as the manifestation of/from the HS was to be done per scriptures and in order!
NO personal prayer language listed, and that was for the early church settings anyways, not for today!
The guidelines God provided were a correction of how it was done in an assembly.
You can not show me one scripture proving it can not be done outside the assembly!
How can you say I can not pray outside the church/assembly? Do you only pray in the church?
You may have answered my questions - execpt for the part of "could a person be cussing while speaking in tounges without realizing it"?
To tell you the truth, Salty, I never thought about that particular problem of cussing. I have thought that the UPC speaks in tongues--there are a lot of Jesus Only in Indianapolis, including the black branch of the Apostolic Church, and I have known many of them, including one friend who gave up everything to go to Hazelwood, MO, to give his life to the cult--but I thought that I was dealing with something demonic and fearful. I told my friend that Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God and I prayed that he would not go to Hazelwood.
Yes, I think it is logical to assume that tongues in the UPC would include cussing. It is terrible to think what they are saying without knowing it. Many of them are very nice people, and often they are very poor.
I am not very good at cult theology because it upsets my tummy to read what they say about Jesus.