While speaking in tounges....

[Thomas Helwys]

My experience with Pencsotals has been primarily with COG Cleveland, TN. The practice is during worship service is someone will shout out in "tongues" then it will be quiet for a few moments and someone else will shout out the "interpretation". I was always quite sceptical of this practice because without exception the "interpretor" always preceeded his/her "interpretation" with "Thus saith the Lord!" Which made me come to the conclusion that God doesn't like speaking in the current vernacular and prefers the use of King James English. Though I suppect KJO people would agree with this. Another reason my scepticism peeked was because also without exception the "interpretation" was a scripture quote usually psalms or proverbs or maybe a combination of the two. Which lead me to believe that 1) God doesn't speak directly to our circumstances or 2) that God forgets that we do have bibles and do read them knowing what these passages are.

Most tongues-talking is a learned behavior, a requirement to be part of "the tribe", and if you don't get the gift at some point, your salvation is questioned. I know this to be true.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Most tongues-talking is a learned behavior, a requirement to be part of "the tribe", and if you don't get the gift at some point, your salvation is questioned. I know this to be true.

Oh, I agree with your assesment. But you can see why I was sceptical. And I'm only speaking to the more moderate behavior. I remember standing behind a person "filled with the Spirit" doing an ackward jig half dancing and flaying his arms around. Being close to him and at times in the path of his arms I wondered to myself if he hit someone by his actions could that be considered a message from the Holy Ghost? Or running the aisles an interesting phenomenon. Though I don't see that mentioned in Scripture. And depending on your background AG behave differently than COG Cleveland, or COG, Anderson. Which these behave somewhat differently than the vineyard people or independent Charistmatic Churches. Its an interesting study.

 

[awaken]

But this is when one's salvation is challenged by those trying to defend speaking in tongues. It seems when they get pushed they cross this line which looks like they are saying "if one does not speak in tongues, then they have not been saved". I believe you already said you did not believe this, but it looks like you do when you cite this passage. I do not speak in tongues, should I be worried that I am not a believer? The scripture you referenced does not say "might" accompany those who believe, but rather "will" accompany those who believe.

I do not think one has to speak in tongues to be saved!
Without me interpreting that scripture...what does it say to you?
I was saved for years before I spoke in tongues. WHY? Because I was taught not to believe in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit. So therefore I was in unbelief concerning this!

 

[awaken]

My experience with Pencsotals has been primarily with COG Cleveland, TN. The practice is during worship service is someone will shout out in "tongues" then it will be quiet for a few moments and someone else will shout out the "interpretation". I was always quite sceptical of this practice because without exception the "interpretor" always preceeded his/her "interpretation" with "Thus saith the Lord!" Which made me come to the conclusion that God doesn't like speaking in the current vernacular and prefers the use of King James English. Though I suppect KJO people would agree with this. Another reason my scepticism peeked was because also without exception the "interpretation" was a scripture quote usually psalms or proverbs or maybe a combination of the two. Which lead me to believe that 1) God doesn't speak directly to our circumstances or 2) that God forgets that we do have bibles and do read them knowing what these passages are.

So you are saying that the tongues and interpretation was not edifying to the assemlby? Where does it say that God can not give the interpretation of tongues and it not be a scripture quote in it.

Not sure I am following what you are saying..

 

[awaken]

Most tongues-talking is a learned behavior, a requirement to be part of "the tribe", and if you don't get the gift at some point, your salvation is questioned. I know this to be true.

I am glad you said MOST..because it is not true of everyone! My Bible tells me that tongues is a supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit you can not speak in tongues!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

So you are saying that the tongues and interpretation was not edifying to the assemlby? Where does it say that God can not give the interpretation of tongues and it not be a scripture quote in it.

Not sure I am following what you are saying..

Let me explain it this way. Without exception the intepretation was a quote from scripture usually psalms which can be generally applied to all situations. Never did the interpretation speak directly to the specific issues the church was in. And usually it was positive. It would have been refreshing to have a prophetic word saying God wanted to smack the church in the back of the head for not doing his will in a certain matter. In my mind, this is no different than the Horoscope quotations in the newspaper making general statements that can be applied to anybody at any time.

 

[Walter]

Like TS, I have been around pentecostal churches which exhibited 'tongues' and their interpretations. Almost without exception the interpretations were given using 'the Kings English'. Verily, saith, thy, thou, and even a 'vouchsafe' or 'withersoever' sometimes. Doesn't this strike anyone as being a bit odd? Contrived?

 

[awaken]

Let me explain it this way. Without exception the intepretation was a quote from scripture usually psalms which can be generally applied to all situations. Never did the interpretation speak directly to the specific issues the church was in. And usually it was positive. It would have been refreshing to have a prophetic word saying God wanted to smack the church in the back of the head for not doing his will in a certain matter. In my mind, this is no different than the Horoscope quotations in the newspaper making general statements that can be applied to anybody at any time.

Well, I can not judge what happen because I was not there. But when I have heard tongues and interpretation sometimes they are general..yet uplifting! Sometimes they are specific to a certain individual...and that individual responds. They do not call out names but the Holy Spirit deals with that one and he responds.

 

[DHK]

Well, I can not judge what happen because I was not there. But when I have heard tongues and interpretation sometimes they are general..yet uplifting! Sometimes they are specific to a certain individual...and that individual responds. They do not call out names but the Holy Spirit deals with that one and he responds.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Like TS, I have been around pentecostal churches which exhibited 'tongues' and their interpretations. Almost without exception the interpretations were given using 'the Kings English'. Verily, saith, thy, thou, and even a 'vouchsafe' or 'withersoever' sometimes. Doesn't this strike anyone as being a bit odd? Contrived?

Yes, a perfect descriptor.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I am glad you said MOST..because it is not true of everyone! My Bible tells me that tongues is a supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit you can not speak in tongues!

Mormons do it. Cults do it. Pagan religions do it. You might want to reassess your statement.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I am glad you said MOST..because it is not true of everyone! My Bible tells me that tongues is a supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit you can not speak in tongues!

Out of hundreds of experiences of tongues, I heard what I believed to be genuine languages only TWICE.

 

[awaken]

Mormons do it. Cults do it. Pagan religions do it. You might want to reassess your statement.

Here we go again...trying to disprove the real by claiming the false!

 

[awaken]

Out of hundreds of experiences of tongues, I heard what I believed to be genuine languages only TWICE.

Well, the pupose of tongues is not for us to determine whether they are languages we recognize or not, right?

I am not saying accept everything out there...just do not throw away the true by the false!

 

[church mouse guy]

Yes, the Divine gift of knowledge, placed directly in the Prophet's head by God, is no longer active. Today we are commanded to "study to show ourselves approved unto God."God's word is perfect. Perfect means "complete, mature, nothing missing that is necessary to the whole."

I am no theologian but I wonder if you haven't redefined knowledge to a Divine gift in the head of a prophet--words that are not in the verse itself? I just don't see where you get that implication.

And now you are saying that Scripture is perfect, a statement with which I agree, and that is the perfect mentioned in the verse (I hope that I represent you correctly here--tell me if I don't), but is that the same perfect that is mentioned in the verse? Or have you merely used the word to bring up the subject of the Bible?

Having been taught your position in Sunday School, I believed as you did until recently. That aside, it seems to me the problem is that the gifts of the spirit by that chronology only lasted very few years from the ascension of Jesus to the last book of Scripture about 90 AD. In other words, the gifts of the spirit only lasted approximately fifty years, right?

This issue along with dispensationalism and the allowance of abortion for rape and incest and the life of the mother if desired by those involved are the main issues dividing the church today. There is a minority on all of these issues.

 

[DHK]

Well, the pupose of tongues is not for us to determine whether they are languages we recognize or not, right?

I am not saying accept everything out there...just do not throw away the true by the false!

If you can't recognize it as a language then chances are it isn't. Any language can be recognized as such. They have structure, syntax, fluctuation in tone, demand a response, a means of communication, etc.
Gibberish, in its monotonal ecstatic utterance of nonsense syllables put together randomly and repeated over and over again has no such characteristics. It is easily identified as not being a language, not being of God. It has its roots in paganism not in the Bible.

 

[awaken]

If you can't recognize it as a language then chances are it isn't. Any language can be recognized as such. They have structure, syntax, fluctuation in tone, demand a response, a means of communication, etc.
Gibberish, in its monotonal ecstatic utterance of nonsense syllables put together randomly and repeated over and over again has no such characteristics. It is easily identified as not being a language, not being of God. It has its roots in paganism not in the Bible.

I will repeat my stand with you because you seem to say the same thing over and over and over....Continue to believe the way you do! I on the other hand chose to believe what His Word says!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Here we go again...trying to disprove the real by claiming the false!

It was you who said: "Without the Holy Spirit you can not speak in tongues!"

I wanted to show you that was not true.

 

[Salty]

... But when I have heard tongues and interpretation...

When speaking in tounges, have those churches, without fail follow all three rules as stated in I Cor 14:27-34?

 

[DHK]

I will repeat my stand with you because you seem to say the same thing over and over and over....Continue to believe the way you do! I on the other hand chose to believe what His Word says!

You don't believe as the Word says. I have given you evidence, and you have in part agreed.
Look at what you have said and put it all together.
You have said and agreed that "tongues are real languages."
You have also admitted that you don't know what language you are speaking in tongues or even if your interpretation is correct. In effect you don't know what you are saying or what language, if any language, you are speaking in.
Therefore, it is not wrong for anyone of us to conclude that you are not speaking in a language at all but in gibberish.
If you were speaking in a language, you would at least recognize it but you don't. Therefore what you do is unblblical. Even your own standards state that tongues in the Bible were actual languages, but you have no idea if you are speaking in a language or not.

Therefore the gibberish you speak in is not of God, is it? If it is not of God who is it from?