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Indwelling/ upon Holy Spirit

A

awaken

Active Member
It seems that most Christian denominations recognize that when a person receives salvation through faith in Jesus, at that moment the Holy Spirit automatically comes to dwell in the person's heart.

I can post many scriptures to prove this..but since most of us agree on that I will not at this time.

I will post this about most of the scriptures we can find..

In Old Testament times, God promised that He would someday make a new covenant with the Jews, and this new covenant would involve the forgiveness of sins (Jeremiah 31:31-34). Jesus instituted the New Covenant with His blood which He shed on the cross ( Luke 22:14-20), and passages such as Romans 15:27, Ephesians 2:11-19, and 3:4-6 tell us that Gentiles ( non-Jews) can share in the blessing of salvation through faith in Jesus. This is important because it means that salvation and the indwelling Holy Spirit are available to everyone (both Jews and Gentiles).

When we are forgiven of our sins under the New Covenant, God sprinkles "clean water" on us (referring to the "living water" of the Holy Spirit) and cleanses us from all impurities (Ezekiel 36:25-27). We are also told that God will put His Spirit in us and move us to obey Him (Ezekiel 36:25-27). This is the indwelling Holy Spirit, which is only given to those who have received salvation through faith in Jesus.

Jesus told the woman at the well that He will give people "living water" which will become a spring of water welling up to eternal life (John 4:10-14). John 7:37-39 explains that this "living water" is the Holy Spirit, who is only given to those who believe.

Jesus said that after He goes away, the Counselor (the Spirit of truth) will be sent to us and will teach, guide, and remind us of Scriptural truths (John 14:26, 16:7-8, and 12-15). This is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

In Romans 8:9-15, 1 Corinthians 2:12-14, 3:16, and 6:11, the apostle Paul said that the Holy Spirit lives in us to lead us and give us discernment of spiritual truths and wash us and sanctify us and justify us, and so on. This is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

In 2 Corinthians 1:21-22, Ephesians 1:13-14, and 4:30, Paul said that when we believed the word of truth (the Gospel of our salvation) then we were marked with a seal by having the Holy Spirit placed in our hearts as a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance. This is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

In Galatians 3:2, 5, and 14 (above), Paul said that we receive the promised Holy Spirit by believing what we heard (the Gospel of our salvation). This is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

In 1 John 2:27 and 4:13-16, the apostle John said that we have an anointing in us which teaches us about all things ( the Holy Spirit of truth), and John said that God's Spirit lives in us. This is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

In the many passages we can see that the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in our hearts when we believe the Gospel of our salvation. There is no indication that the Holy Spirit might not come into our hearts at the moment of salvation, and there is no indication that the Holy Spirit might come into our hearts at any time other than the moment of salvation, and there is no indication that we need to do anything other than believe in Jesus in order to receive the Holy Spirit. This is why Christian denominations tend to say that we automatically receive the indwelling Holy Spirit at the moment when we receive salvation.

Also in many passages we are told that we can recognize Jesus' true disciples by their "fruit." This is described as being obedience to God's commands, acknowledging that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who has come in the flesh, and displaying the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) by loving each other with actions and in truth. These are the things that we are told to look for as evidence that a person has received salvation. The Bible never tells us to look for supernatural manifestations as evidence of anyone's salvation.

Do we agree so far??

What I would like to discuss on this thread is...Is there a difference in the indwelling Holy Spirit and the Spirit upon?

Please do not turn this thread in a debate about spiritual gifts and whether they are for today or not!
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
awaken said:
It seems that most Christian denominations recognize that when a person receives salvation through faith in Jesus, at that moment the Holy Spirit automatically comes to dwell in the person's heart.

I can post many scriptures to prove this..but since most of us agree on that I will not at this time.

I will post this about most of the scriptures we can find..

In Old Testament times, God promised that He would someday make a new covenant with the Jews, and this new covenant would involve the forgiveness of sins (Jeremiah 31:31-34). Jesus instituted the New Covenant with His blood which He shed on the cross ( Luke 22:14-20), and passages such as Romans 15:27, Ephesians 2:11-19, and 3:4-6 tell us that Gentiles ( non-Jews) can share in the blessing of salvation through faith in Jesus. This is important because it means that salvation and the indwelling Holy Spirit are available to everyone (both Jews and Gentiles).

When we are forgiven of our sins under the New Covenant, God sprinkles "clean water" on us (referring to the "living water" of the Holy Spirit) and cleanses us from all impurities (Ezekiel 36:25-27). We are also told that God will put His Spirit in us and move us to obey Him (Ezekiel 36:25-27). This is the indwelling Holy Spirit, which is only given to those who have received salvation through faith in Jesus.

Jesus told the woman at the well that He will give people "living water" which will become a spring of water welling up to eternal life (John 4:10-14). John 7:37-39 explains that this "living water" is the Holy Spirit, who is only given to those who believe.

Jesus said that after He goes away, the Counselor (the Spirit of truth) will be sent to us and will teach, guide, and remind us of Scriptural truths (John 14:26, 16:7-8, and 12-15). This is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

In Romans 8:9-15, 1 Corinthians 2:12-14, 3:16, and 6:11, the apostle Paul said that the Holy Spirit lives in us to lead us and give us discernment of spiritual truths and wash us and sanctify us and justify us, and so on. This is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

In 2 Corinthians 1:21-22, Ephesians 1:13-14, and 4:30, Paul said that when we believed the word of truth (the Gospel of our salvation) then we were marked with a seal by having the Holy Spirit placed in our hearts as a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance. This is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

In Galatians 3:2, 5, and 14 (above), Paul said that we receive the promised Holy Spirit by believing what we heard (the Gospel of our salvation). This is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

In 1 John 2:27 and 4:13-16, the apostle John said that we have an anointing in us which teaches us about all things ( the Holy Spirit of truth), and John said that God's Spirit lives in us. This is the indwelling Holy Spirit.

In the many passages we can see that the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in our hearts when we believe the Gospel of our salvation. There is no indication that the Holy Spirit might not come into our hearts at the moment of salvation, and there is no indication that the Holy Spirit might come into our hearts at any time other than the moment of salvation, and there is no indication that we need to do anything other than believe in Jesus in order to receive the Holy Spirit. This is why Christian denominations tend to say that we automatically receive the indwelling Holy Spirit at the moment when we receive salvation.

Also in many passages we are told that we can recognize Jesus' true disciples by their "fruit." This is described as being obedience to God's commands, acknowledging that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who has come in the flesh, and displaying the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) by loving each other with actions and in truth. These are the things that we are told to look for as evidence that a person has received salvation. The Bible never tells us to look for supernatural manifestations as evidence of anyone's salvation.

Do we agree so far??

What I would like to discuss on this thread is...Is there a difference in the indwelling Holy Spirit and the Spirit upon?

Please do not turn this thread in a debate about spiritual gifts and whether they are for today or not!
Click to expand...

ALL believers are indwelt by the HS when saved, but there is an additional aspect to him in ourlives, its called being refilled by Him!

We can be saved and do our teaching/preaching living/witnessing from out of our own means, or else submit to Him and hvae Him infill us daily to get those same things done in a way glorifying God!

NOT second act of grace, but is willingly submitting to Him daily fashion!
 
A

awaken

Active Member
Since no one debated my last post I will assume they agreed with it!:thumbsup:

So I guess we now will move into the more controversal scriptures...

You can look at every New Testament passage which describes Christians receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2,8,910 and 19). There are no other descriptions of Christians receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit anywhere else in Scripture, so these are the only examples that God has given us in order to teach us.

So we will began with Acts 2 but before that I would like to post Acts 1 Where Jesus promised the Baptism in the HOly Spirit.

vs. 4b-5 "..but wait for the promise of the Father, which saith he, ye have heard of me(Luke 24:49). For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

vs. 8 "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria and unto the uttermost part of the earth."
(Interesting that he did not say you will receive eternal life or salvation etc.)

Acts 2..
This promise was fulfilled a few days later on the day of Pentecost:
"When the day of Pentecost came, they [the disciples] were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them." (Acts 2:1-4)

Notice the terms which are used above to describe the baptism of the Holy Spirit:
"when the Holy Spirit comes on you"
"All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit"

Just from the post above..I do not see the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as..
Salvation- because the disciples aready believed in Jesus Christ..born, lived, died and rose again! Salvation is faith in Jesus and Jesus alone! An inward working of the Holy Spirit.

Water baptism- THis is only a picture of God placing the believer into Christ.

Gifts of the HOly Spirit-This baptism releases the manifestations..not just tongues.

Fruit of the Spirit- These attitudes are released by the indwelling Spirit and flow from the heart of the growing believer.

So is the Baptism of the HOly Spirit the same as the filling of the Holy Spirit?
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
awaken said:
Since no one debated my last post I will assume they agreed with it!:thumbsup:

So I guess we now will move into the more controversal scriptures...

You can look at every New Testament passage which describes Christians receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2,8,910 and 19). There are no other descriptions of Christians receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit anywhere else in Scripture, so these are the only examples that God has given us in order to teach us.

So we will began with Acts 2 but before that I would like to post Acts 1 Where Jesus promised the Baptism in the HOly Spirit.

vs. 4b-5 "..but wait for the promise of the Father, which saith he, ye have heard of me(Luke 24:49). For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

vs. 8 "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria and unto the uttermost part of the earth."
(Interesting that he did not say you will receive eternal life or salvation etc.)

Acts 2..
This promise was fulfilled a few days later on the day of Pentecost:
"When the day of Pentecost came, they [the disciples] were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them." (Acts 2:1-4)

Notice the terms which are used above to describe the baptism of the Holy Spirit:
"when the Holy Spirit comes on you"
"All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit"

Just from the post above..I do not see the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as..
Salvation- because the disciples aready believed in Jesus Christ..born, lived, died and rose again! Salvation is faith in Jesus and Jesus alone! An inward working of the Holy Spirit.

Water baptism- THis is only a picture of God placing the believer into Christ.

Gifts of the HOly Spirit-This baptism releases the manifestations..not just tongues.

Fruit of the Spirit- These attitudes are released by the indwelling Spirit and flow from the heart of the growing believer.

So is the Baptism of the HOly Spirit the same as the filling of the Holy Spirit?
Click to expand...

what happened at pentacost was aunique event, as there were tongues and the sound of a mighty rushing wind!

Point is that after Acts, we have in the epistles clear teachings that the baptism of/in the HS was when he came to abide in us at salvation, and that we are commanded to stay refilled with Him!
 
A

awaken

Active Member
Yeshua1 said:
what happened at pentacost was aunique event, as there were tongues and the sound of a mighty rushing wind!

Point is that after Acts, we have in the epistles clear teachings that the baptism of/in the HS was when he came to abide in us at salvation, and that we are commanded to stay refilled with Him!
Click to expand...
Really? Because my Bible says this is when the Holy Spirit comes upon them!
Is the filling and the Baptism the same?
 
A

awaken

Active Member
The next time we see the baptism in the Holy Spirit is at the House of Cornelius the Gentile (Acts 10:44-45)...

In Acts 10:44-45, the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out on Gentiles for the very first time:
"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers [Jews] who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ." (Acts 10:44-48)

This story is repeated in Acts 11:15-17:

"As I [Peter] began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?" (Acts 11:15-17)

When the Holy Spirit came on the Gentiles at the house of Cornelius, the apostle Peter referred to it as the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Peter said that it was the same event which had happened to the disciples in the beginning at Pentecost.

Notice the terms which are used above to describe the baptism of the Holy Spirit:
"the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message"
"the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles"
"They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have"
"the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning"
"God gave them the same gift as he gave us"
 
D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
The Book of Acts--a book of history, a book of transition, a book of the acts of the apostles, but not a book of doctrine. The doctrine of the churches is found in the epistles which you ignore.

Tongues is found three times in Acts.
1. Acts 2--The Day of Pentecost when over 100,000 Jews were gathered at the Temple. It was a sign to the Jews, which they rejected, though 3,000 were saved.

2. According to Acts 1:8, the gospel spread to Samaria. In Acts 8, Philip preached in Samaria, and they were baptized by the Spirit there, though no one spoke in tongues. However Philip had to wait for Apostolic authority to come.

3. Acts 10, the Gospel went to the Gentiles--Cornelius, a Roman centurion. Peter also took some Jews with him, for tongues were a sign to the Jews. Peter was an apostle.

4. Acts 19, These were some followers of John that had not fully understood the gospel, never heard of the Holy Spirit, but had believed what John had said of Christ. Like Apollos in chapter 18, the gospel was made clear to them; they believed, were baptized in the Spirit, and spoke in tongues. An apostle was present, and there were Jews present. Tongues were a sign to the Jews.

The only other time tongues is mentioned is in the most carnal church in the NT, where the believers came out of a pagan background. They were abusing the gift and not using it in the way that God intended it to be used. Almost everything that Paul says about the gift here is negative and intended for rebuke. He puts prophesy over tongues, and tongues as the very least gift in order of importance.
Ironically the Charismatics have made it the most important and most sought after gift.
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
awaken said:
The next time we see the baptism in the Holy Spirit is at the House of Cornelius the Gentile (Acts 10:44-45)...

In Acts 10:44-45, the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out on Gentiles for the very first time:
"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers [Jews] who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ." (Acts 10:44-48)

This story is repeated in Acts 11:15-17:

"As I [Peter] began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?" (Acts 11:15-17)

When the Holy Spirit came on the Gentiles at the house of Cornelius, the apostle Peter referred to it as the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Peter said that it was the same event which had happened to the disciples in the beginning at Pentecost.

Notice the terms which are used above to describe the baptism of the Holy Spirit:
"the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message"
"the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles"
"They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have"
"the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning"
"God gave them the same gift as he gave us"
Click to expand...

again, God confirmed to the jewish believers in yeshua as messiah that the gentiles were to get saved thru him also!
Confirmation sign were the tongues to them, as they received the HS JUST as the 120 did in the Upper room!

NOT repeated again in the bible though, was it?
 
A

awaken

Active Member
DHK said:
The Book of Acts--a book of history, a book of transition, a book of the acts of the apostles, but not a book of doctrine. The doctrine of the churches is found in the epistles which you ignore.
Click to expand...
THe gospels were the transition books! After Jesus ascended...they are walking out what He said they would and could!

Tongues is found three times in Acts.
1. Acts 2--The Day of Pentecost when over 100,000 Jews were gathered at the Temple. It was a sign to the Jews, which they rejected, though 3,000 were saved.

2. According to Acts 1:8, the gospel spread to Samaria. In Acts 8, Philip preached in Samaria, and they were baptized by the Spirit there, though no one spoke in tongues. However Philip had to wait for Apostolic authority to come.

3. Acts 10, the Gospel went to the Gentiles--Cornelius, a Roman centurion. Peter also took some Jews with him, for tongues were a sign to the Jews. Peter was an apostle.

4. Acts 19, These were some followers of John that had not fully understood the gospel, never heard of the Holy Spirit, but had believed what John had said of Christ. Like Apollos in chapter 18, the gospel was made clear to them; they believed, were baptized in the Spirit, and spoke in tongues. An apostle was present, and there were Jews present. Tongues were a sign to the Jews.

The only other time tongues is mentioned is in the most carnal church in the NT, where the believers came out of a pagan background. They were abusing the gift and not using it in the way that God intended it to be used. Almost everything that Paul says about the gift here is negative and intended for rebuke. He puts prophesy over tongues, and tongues as the very least gift in order of importance.
Ironically the Charismatics have made it the most important and most sought after gift.
Click to expand...
This is not about tongues, DHK...or even manifestation of the Holy Spirit!
This is about... Is there a difference in the indwelling Holy Spirit and the Spirit upon?
We have discussed tongue into the ground...nothing new is in your post! ANd if I reply I would not say any different than I have posted in the past!

So do you have anything to prove or disprove the indwellling/upon Holy Spirit?
 
A

awaken

Active Member
Yeshua1 said:
again, God confirmed to the jewish believers in yeshua as messiah that the gentiles were to get saved thru him also!
Confirmation sign were the tongues to them, as they received the HS JUST as the 120 did in the Upper room!

NOT repeated again in the bible though, was it?
Click to expand...
THe point is not tongues..it is the Spirit upon!
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
awaken said:
THe point is not tongues..it is the Spirit upon!
Click to expand...

that was what Go dused to show them the gentiles were saved just as the jews, they heard the tongues magifing God!

that was not repeated though, as that by itself confirmed gentiles were to get saved by Yeshua, just as it did for the Samaritans!
 
A

awaken

Active Member
The next mention of the Spirit upon is the New Christians in Samaria (Acts 8:12-17)

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. ... When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." (Acts 8:12-17)

Peter and John were not sent to Samaria until the apostles heard that the Samaritans had received salvation by believing the Gospel message which Philip had preached. When Peter and John arrived, they laid hands on the Samaritans and then the Holy Spirit came on the Samaritans. Therefore, some amount of time passed between the moment the Samaritans were saved and the moment they "received" the Holy Spirit. This brings up an interesting question. As we have seen, most Christian denominations teach that everyone automatically receives the indwelling Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation, so why does it appear as if the Samaritans did not automatically receive the Holy Spirit when they received salvation? There is a very simple answer to this question, and this answer will become clearer to me as I gain a better understanding of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

This passage says that the Holy Spirit had not yet "come upon" any of the Samaritans. Notice that this is the same wording which is used to describe the baptism of the Holy Spirit in all of the examples above.
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
awaken said:
THe point is not tongues..it is the Spirit upon!
Click to expand...

The Spirit upon us is more of the Old Covenant thing, for in that time, the HS did came suddenly upon kings/prophets, in order to do a specifc task fro God, but departed after done!
 
A

awaken

Active Member
Yeshua1 said:
that was what Go dused to show them the gentiles were saved just as the jews, they heard the tongues magifing God!

that was not repeated though, as that by itself confirmed gentiles were to get saved by Yeshua, just as it did for the Samaritans!
Click to expand...
The Samaritans??
What about Acts 19?
 
A

awaken

Active Member
Yeshua1 said:
The Spirit upon us is more of the Old Covenant thing, for in that time, the HS did came suddenly upon kings/prophets, in order to do a specifc task fro God, but departed after done!
Click to expand...
So you are saying that the OT upon is different than the NT upon?
 
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