Indwelling/ upon Holy Spirit

[awaken]

THe last one to share is Saul of Tarsus (Acts 9:17-18)

"Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord--Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here--has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized" (Acts 9:17-18)

On the road to Damascus, Saul of Tarsus (before he became the apostle Paul) was surrounded by a glorious light from heaven, and then Jesus identified Himself and commissioned Paul as an apostle. The word "apostle" in the New Testament essentially means "one sent by Christ as a witness," and it carries a sense of authority given to the person by Christ. Jesus said that He had appeared in order to appoint Paul as a witness and that He was sending Paul to the Gentiles.

There was a three-day gap (Acts 9:9) between the moment when Paul was saved and the moment when he was "filled" with the Holy Spirit when a disciple named Ananias laid hands on him:

When Paul was "filled with" the Holy Spirit, was that the baptism of the Holy Spirit? Perhaps. Consider that when the disciples received the baptism of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, the Bible specifically says that they were "filled with" the Holy Spirit. This is not conclusive proof, but many Bible scholars feel that Paul received the baptism of the Holy Spirit when Ananias laid hands on him.

 

[awaken]

Again......for what?

The difference in the idwelling and the spirit upon...

 

[awaken]

I posted this on another thread by mistake so I copied it over here...

Someone ask if I could show where the disciples received the indwelling Holy Spirit.....
On the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit was poured out on the disciples in a great demonstration of supernatural power (Acts 2:1-4). There was the sound of a violent wind, visible tongues of fire, speaking in tongues, and powerful evangelism which resulted in roughly 3000 people being saved that day (Acts 2:41) and many more being saved or healed after that (Acts 2:43).

However, there was an earlier event which needs to be examined, because it has a significant impact on the study of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. If you recall, before Pentecost Jesus told the disciples that in a few days they would be "baptized" with the Holy Spirit:

""For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. ... you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight." (Acts 1:5, 8-9)

Notice that immediately before Jesus ascended to heaven, He told the disciples that they will be baptized with the Holy Spirit in a few days. Now take a look at what Jesus said to the disciples on Resurrection Sunday (which was forty days earlier, according to Acts 1:3):

"On the evening of that first day of the week [Resurrection Sunday], when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord. Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit."" (John 20:19-22)

Notice that the disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day that Jesus was resurrected, which was almost a month and a half before they were filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost!

Why did the disciples have two separate experiences of the Holy Spirit like that?

Some denominations say that the disciples received the Holy Spirit on Resurrection Sunday as a partial filling in anticipation of their salvation at Pentecost, and that it was for the purpose of empowering them for their ministry. So the mainline view tends to be that the disciples were empowered on Resurrection Sunday and that they were saved at Pentecost.

Others tend to say just the opposite, that the disciples were saved on Resurrection Sunday and empowered at Pentecost.

Just enough to get you thinking......

 

[Thomas Helwys]

The Book of Acts--a book of history, a book of transition, a book of the acts of the apostles, but not a book of doctrine. The doctrine of the churches is found in the epistles which you ignore.

Tongues is found three times in Acts.
1. Acts 2--The Day of Pentecost when over 100,000 Jews were gathered at the Temple. It was a sign to the Jews, which they rejected, though 3,000 were saved.

2. According to Acts 1:8, the gospel spread to Samaria. In Acts 8, Philip preached in Samaria, and they were baptized by the Spirit there, though no one spoke in tongues. However Philip had to wait for Apostolic authority to come.

3. Acts 10, the Gospel went to the Gentiles--Cornelius, a Roman centurion. Peter also took some Jews with him, for tongues were a sign to the Jews. Peter was an apostle.

4. Acts 19, These were some followers of John that had not fully understood the gospel, never heard of the Holy Spirit, but had believed what John had said of Christ. Like Apollos in chapter 18, the gospel was made clear to them; they believed, were baptized in the Spirit, and spoke in tongues. An apostle was present, and there were Jews present. Tongues were a sign to the Jews.

The only other time tongues is mentioned is in the most carnal church in the NT, where the believers came out of a pagan background. They were abusing the gift and not using it in the way that God intended it to be used. Almost everything that Paul says about the gift here is negative and intended for rebuke. He puts prophesy over tongues, and tongues as the very least gift in order of importance.
Ironically the Charismatics have made it the most important and most sought after gift.

This has been pointed out several times, by you, me, and maybe others. It is undeniable and irrefutable context-based scriptural truth. She will not accept it because she has been brainwashed by charismatic foolishness.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Again......for what?

She has one purpose in every thread she starts. Do you know what it is? If not, I can tell you.

 

[awaken]

Could be a simple matter to determine which view is more Scripturally accurate. Consider the following points:

First of all, notice what the Bible says in Romans 10:9:
"if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9)
While Jesus was alive, the disciples had confessed Him as Lord (John 13:13, for example). However, the disciples were not Christians at that point because they did not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ (since Jesus had not yet died).

On Resurrection Sunday, the day Christ rose from the dead, He came to the disciples in a locked room:

"On the evening of that first day of the week [Resurrection Sunday], when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord. Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you."" (John 20:19-21)

At this point the disciples believed in the bodily resurrection of Christ, so they had received salvation (for the essential requirements of salvation).

Therefore, when the disciples received the Holy Spirit on Resurrection Sunday, it could be when they received salvation.

Notice that the disciples received the Holy Spirit (John 20:22) immediately after they received salvation (John 20:19-21):
"And with that he [Jesus] breathed on them [the disciples] and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit."" (John 20:22)
Don't we all agre that everyone receives the indwelling Holy Spirit at the time of their salvation, and here we see the disciples receiving the Holy Spirit immediately after they received salvation. There is nothing in this passage to indicate that the disciples only "partially" received the Holy Spirit (which tends to be the viewpoint of certain mainline Bible scholars).

Jesus imparted the Holy Spirit to the disciples by breathing on them. Why did He do that? Jesus created everything that has been created (John 1:1-3, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Colossians 1:16, and Hebrews 1:2), and after Jesus formed Adam from the dust of the ground He imparted spiritual life to Adam by breathing on him:

"Then the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath or spirit of life; and man became a living being." (Genesis 2:7, AMP)

When Jesus breathed into Adam's nostrils in Genesis 2:7, Adam immediately received spiritual life. Since Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit into the disciples on Resurrection Sunday in a deliberate way as an exact parallel of Genesis 2:7, it is reasonable to conclude that the disciples immediately received spiritual life, just as Adam did.

For those that like to look up what the mainline Bible Knowledge Commentary says:
"Since the Fall, regeneration by the "inbreathing" of the Holy Spirit is essential in order for people to enjoy fellowship with God." (Old Testament edition, Walvoord and Zuck, Dallas Theological Seminary, p.30, emphasis added)
The disciples received a direct "inbreathing" of the Holy Spirit on the day that Jesus was resurrected, and this mainline commentary explains that the "inbreathing" of the Holy Spirit happens when we are regenerated (saved). So when the disciples received the Holy Spirit on Resurrection Sunday, it was at the time of their salvation.

 

[Yeshua1]

THe last one to share is Saul of Tarsus (Acts 9:17-18)

"Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord--Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here--has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized" (Acts 9:17-18)

On the road to Damascus, Saul of Tarsus (before he became the apostle Paul) was surrounded by a glorious light from heaven, and then Jesus identified Himself and commissioned Paul as an apostle. The word "apostle" in the New Testament essentially means "one sent by Christ as a witness," and it carries a sense of authority given to the person by Christ. Jesus said that He had appeared in order to appoint Paul as a witness and that He was sending Paul to the Gentiles.

There was a three-day gap (Acts 9:9) between the moment when Paul was saved and the moment when he was "filled" with the Holy Spirit when a disciple named Ananias laid hands on him:

When Paul was "filled with" the Holy Spirit, was that the baptism of the Holy Spirit? Perhaps. Consider that when the disciples received the baptism of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, the Bible specifically says that they were "filled with" the Holy Spirit. This is not conclusive proof, but many Bible scholars feel that Paul received the baptism of the Holy Spirit when Ananias laid hands on him.

No need to try to get pentacostal power from life of paul!

he was converted by Jesus at His appearing to paul, and at that point was indwelt by the HS, and when hands laid upon him, was "commission" to go forth, and at that time was filled with/by the HS!

Same process ALL of us daily do!

At least should be doing!

 

[awaken]

No need to try to get pentacostal power from life of paul!

he was converted by Jesus at His appearing to paul, and at that point was indwelt by the HS, and when hands laid upon him, was "commission" to go forth, and at that time was filled with/by the HS!

Same process ALL of us daily do!

At least should be doing!

Wonder why Ananias laid hands on him...why not the other apostles if it was a commissioning?

 

[DHK]

Could be a simple matter to determine which view is more Scripturally accurate. Consider the following points:

First of all, notice what the Bible says in Romans 10:9:
"if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9)
While Jesus was alive, the disciples had confessed Him as Lord (John 13:13, for example). However, the disciples were not Christians at that point because they did not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ (since Jesus had not yet died).

Not only is your tongue speaking gibberish, so is this theology of yours gibberish.
Your conclusion is that for 3 1/2 years Jesus taught unsaved, unregenerated wicked hell-bent sinners who never attained salvation until after he arose from the dead.
Even though on several occasions, Peter testified of the deity of Christ, of his belief in the Messiah as the Son of God, that he would believe no other, that they as a whole had given up all to follow him, still you believe they are unsaved. Would unsaved people say and do what Peter and the others said and did?
Was John the Baptist, for whom Jesus had such great praise also unsaved?
What about all those mentioned in Hebrews 11, the heroes of the faith, also unsaved because they died before the resurrection? Are they also unsaved?

Your position is quite untenable, if not down right ridiculous.

 

[awaken]

Not only is your tongue speaking gibberish, so is this theology of yours gibberish.

Here we go with the personal attacks! So what is to follow means you can not debate with scriptures! Always bring down the person first...the devil likes that tactic...

Your conclusion is that for 3 1/2 years Jesus taught unsaved, unregenerated wicked hell-bent sinners who never attained salvation until after he arose from the dead.
Even though on several occasions, Peter testified of the deity of Christ, of his belief in the Messiah as the Son of God, that he would believe no other, that they as a whole had given up all to follow him, still you believe they are unsaved. Would unsaved people say and do what Peter and the others said and did?
Was John the Baptist, for whom Jesus had such great praise also unsaved?
What about all those mentioned in Hebrews 11, the heroes of the faith, also unsaved because they died before the resurrection? Are they also unsaved?

Your position is quite untenable, if not down right ridiculous.

So by your position...if satan had stopped Jesus before the cross! We would still attain salvation! The cross never had to take place????
No, I believe that is part of the good news we have to have believe! We have to believe in his birth, death, and his resurrection!

 

[awaken]

A week after Resurrection Sunday, Jesus again came and stood with the disciples in a locked room, and this time Thomas (the doubter) was present. Jesus said that Thomas was now a believer because he saw the proof that Jesus was resurrected. Jesus further stated that those who believe in Him without actually seeing Him will be blessed with salvation as well:

"A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."" (John 20:26-29)

Notice that the focus in this passage is on salvation, not spiritual empowerment.

 

[Yeshua1]

A week after Resurrection Sunday, Jesus again came and stood with the disciples in a locked room, and this time Thomas (the doubter) was present. Jesus said that Thomas was now a believer because he saw the proof that Jesus was resurrected. Jesus further stated that those who believe in Him without actually seeing Him will be blessed with salvation as well:

"A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."" (John 20:26-29)

Notice that the focus in this passage is on salvation, not spiritual empowerment.

Another main point is the bible states that we ALL who gave been saved have ALl spiritual blessings in Christ, not just to the select who also received the "baptism in the HG!"

 

[awaken]

Another main point is the bible states that we ALL who gave been saved have ALl spiritual blessings in Christ, not just to the select who also received the "baptism in the HG!"

Why do you not have scripture references when you post? Just curious!

 

[awaken]

Immediately after the passage in the other post... in which Thomas became a believer, the apostle John said that by believing in Jesus we will have salvation and eternal life:

"Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life [eternal life] in his name." (John 20:30-31)
Again, the focus in this passage is on salvation, not spiritual empowerment.

The whole section of Scripture surrounding Resurrection Sunday (John 20:19-31) has dwelt on salvation. All of the evidence shows that when the disciples received the Holy Spirit on Resurrection Sunday, it was at the time of their salvation.

 

[Yeshua1]

Why do you not have scripture references when you post? Just curious!

I could do that, but those verses seem to pretty evident, aren't they?

 

[awaken]

I see the Biblical evidence indicate that the disciples were saved on Resurrection Sunday, and that they received supernatural power when they were baptized with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. These were two separate and distinct events with two separate and distinct purposes.

Now let's take a look at some more reasons why salvation and the baptism of the Holy Spirit are separate events:

Notice that after Jesus was baptized in water, the Holy Spirit descended on Him. Was this done to seal Jesus with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of His salvation (as in Ephesians 1:13-14)? Obviously not, because Jesus was not in need of salvation. On earth, Jesus was our perfect role model because He was the perfect human, and He received the Holy Spirit in order to be empowered for His ministry on earth as the perfect human. This can be demonstrated by following the sequence of events in Luke's Gospel and in Acts:
"When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove." (Luke 3:21-22)

"You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached-- how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him." (Acts 10:37-38)

"Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry." (Luke 3:23)

"Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert, where for forty days he was tempted by the devil." (Luke 4:1-2)

"When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time. Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside." (Luke 4:13-14)

First we are told that Jesus was baptized in water and then He received the Holy Spirit (not as a guarantee of His salvation, but for spiritual empowerment). We are also told that God anointed Jesus with the Holy Spirit and power. Next, Jesus began His ministry after receiving the Holy Spirit and power. We are then told that He allowed Himself to be led by the Spirit rather than deciding on His own what He wished to do. Finally, we see Jesus returning to Galilee in the power of the Holy Spirit after resisting the devil in the desert. So even though Jesus is the Son of God, the above passages tell us that He received the empowerment of the Holy Spirit for His earthly ministry. Notice that Jesus was already "saved" (because He was never "unsaved") when He received spiritual empowerment, just as we need to be saved before we can receive spiritual empowerment

 

[Yeshua1]

I see the Biblical evidence indicate that the disciples were saved on Resurrection Sunday, and that they received supernatural power when they were baptized with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. These were two separate and distinct events with two separate and distinct purposes.

Now let's take a look at some more reasons why salvation and the baptism of the Holy Spirit are separate events:

Notice that after Jesus was baptized in water, the Holy Spirit descended on Him. Was this done to seal Jesus with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of His salvation (as in Ephesians 1:13-14)? Obviously not, because Jesus was not in need of salvation. On earth, Jesus was our perfect role model because He was the perfect human, and He received the Holy Spirit in order to be empowered for His ministry on earth as the perfect human. This can be demonstrated by following the sequence of events in Luke's Gospel and in Acts:
"When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove." (Luke 3:21-22)

"You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached-- how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him." (Acts 10:37-38)

"Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry." (Luke 3:23)

"Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert, where for forty days he was tempted by the devil." (Luke 4:1-2)

"When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time. Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside." (Luke 4:13-14)

First we are told that Jesus was baptized in water and then He received the Holy Spirit (not as a guarantee of His salvation, but for spiritual empowerment). We are also told that God anointed Jesus with the Holy Spirit and power. Next, Jesus began His ministry after receiving the Holy Spirit and power. We are then told that He allowed Himself to be led by the Spirit rather than deciding on His own what He wished to do. Finally, we see Jesus returning to Galilee in the power of the Holy Spirit after resisting the devil in the desert. So even though Jesus is the Son of God, the above passages tell us that He received the empowerment of the Holy Spirit for His earthly ministry. Notice that Jesus was already "saved" (because He was never "unsaved") when He received spiritual empowerment, just as we need to be saved before we can receive spiritual empowerment

You do rrealise that he was the chrsit, the Annoited One of God, so if course the HS would be empowering him to do that work as the Servant of the lord, but CANNOT use his example to be exactly how we are to wal, for NONE of us were the "Annoited One!"

Also, how could the Apostles have the power of the HS to preach/teach/write etc as he had NOT yet come to earth until pentacost in that fashion!

 

[awaken]

You do rrealise that he was the chrsit, the Annoited One of God, so if course the HS would be empowering him to do that work as the Servant of the lord, but CANNOT use his example to be exactly how we are to wal, for NONE of us were the "Annoited One!"

Also, how could the Apostles have the power of the HS to preach/teach/write etc as he had NOT yet come to earth until pentacost in that fashion!

Jesus had the Holy Spirit WITHOUT measure...we as well as the apostles only have a measure!

 

[awaken]

Another example of the baptism of the Holy Spirit being separate from salvation can be seen in Luke 11:11-13, I have posted this scripture several times...but lets look at it closer...

"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)

Jesus gives examples of a son asking his father for a gift, and then He says that "your Father" will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask. In other words, if you are a Christian, a child of God, then you can ask your Father for the Holy Spirit. First you must be saved (at which point God becomes your heavenly Father - see John 1:12-13, Galatians 3:26, and 4:4-7), then you can ask for the Holy Spirit. But remember, when we become saved we automatically receive the indwelling Holy Spirit, we don't have to ask for Him! Yet Jesus says that God will give the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who ask for it. This gift, therefore, is not salvation (because we do not become saved by asking God for the Holy Spirit), but instead this gift is what the Bible calls the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit for receiving spiritual empowerment:

"On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. ... you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."" (Acts 1:4-8)

"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."" (Acts 10:44-47)

"As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?" (Acts 11:15-17)

This "baptism" is a gift of the Holy Spirit for receiving spiritual empowerment, and we can ask for this gift after we receive salvation (although God might sometimes give this gift to a person immediately after receiving salvation, as in Acts 10:44-47 and 11:15-17).

This is demonstrated further by comparing Luke 11:13 with its parallel passage in Matthew:

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:13)

"If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!" (Matthew 7:11)

Comparing these two passages, we can see that receiving the Holy Spirit is equated with receiving "good gifts." In other words, when we as Christians ask our Father for the Holy Spirit, He will give us the gift of being baptized with the Holy Spirit for our spiritual empowerment. Notice that salvation is not mentioned at all here, and in fact we do not become saved by asking for the Holy Spirit.

Since only Christians have been adopted as children of God (Ephesians 1:4-5), only Christians can ask our heavenly Father for the gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This demonstrates that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is only available to us after salvation. (Again, the indwelling Holy Spirit we receive at salvation).

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Another example of the baptism of the Holy Spirit being separate from salvation can be seen in Luke 11:11-13, I have posted this scripture several times...but lets look at it closer...

"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)

Jesus gives examples of a son asking his father for a gift, and then He says that "your Father" will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask. In other words, if you are a Christian, a child of God, then you can ask your Father for the Holy Spirit. First you must be saved (at which point God becomes your heavenly Father - see John 1:12-13, Galatians 3:26, and 4:4-7), then you can ask for the Holy Spirit. But remember, when we become saved we automatically receive the indwelling Holy Spirit, we don't have to ask for Him! Yet Jesus says that God will give the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who ask for it. This gift, therefore, is not salvation (because we do not become saved by asking God for the Holy Spirit), but instead this gift is what the Bible calls the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit for receiving spiritual empowerment:

"On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. ... you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."" (Acts 1:4-8)

"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."" (Acts 10:44-47)

"As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?" (Acts 11:15-17)

This "baptism" is a gift of the Holy Spirit for receiving spiritual empowerment, and we can ask for this gift after we receive salvation (although God might sometimes give this gift to a person immediately after receiving salvation, as in Acts 10:44-47 and 11:15-17).

This is demonstrated further by comparing Luke 11:13 with its parallel passage in Matthew:

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:13)

"If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!" (Matthew 7:11)

Comparing these two passages, we can see that receiving the Holy Spirit is equated with receiving "good gifts." In other words, when we as Christians ask our Father for the Holy Spirit, He will give us the gift of being baptized with the Holy Spirit for our spiritual empowerment. Notice that salvation is not mentioned at all here, and in fact we do not become saved by asking for the Holy Spirit.

Since only Christians have been adopted as children of God (Ephesians 1:4-5), only Christians can ask our heavenly Father for the gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This demonstrates that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is only available to us after salvation. (Again, the indwelling Holy Spirit we receive at salvation).

What you are promoting is Pentecostal false doctrine. This has been shown to you over and over again, using scripture in context. You ignore the facts because you are not interested in the truth. All you are looking for is some non-existent scriptural justification for your gross error.

You have shown that you are unwillling to learn and unwilling to accept factual teaching, even though you profess to be on a search for the truth. When it is presented to you, you reject and/or ignore it.