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Why do you make a distinction between the church described in the book of Acts and today's church?

Aren't you simply making the distinction because you are trying to assert that the lack of spiritual vitality in the Western churches is the way things are supposed to be?

Certainly the Book of Acts is describing a time where barriers are being broken down between the Jewish believers and the Gentiles, showing the spread of the gospel throughout the known world. But shouldn't that be continuing today? Don't we still need the Spirit's power and authority to push back the darkness and advance God's kingdom?

 

we STILL have the SAME power available to us as believers today, ALL do, its found in yielding to the HS on a contunually basis!

we don't need th tongues/prophecies today, as we have the full rrevelation of God now in the bible, and the HS main mission in His church is same today, He empowers us to live as we ought as believer, and to have powerful witnesses!

He is the same, gives same power to do Will of god, so the Church is not deficient in power, just in acessing His power!

ITS not donethru charasmatic chais, but thru submitting to Him!

 

The Book of Acts is called the Acts of the Apostles. It is not the acts of the churches. Where the church is peurile, lacking the Scriptures and persecuted by those who crucified christ with their own hands, I would expect to see the same kind of messengers, and the same kind of confirmations of the message.

The signs and wonders did not follow the church, they followed the Apostles.

 

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Where does it say anything about the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
Eph.5:18 talks of being filled with the Holy Spirit, but nowhere are we commanded to ask for the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

Jesus made the Holy Spirit available to every believer from Pentecost onward. Every believer is indwelt with the Holy Spirit from salvation onward. There is no subsequent baptism. You can't get that from Scripture. It is a false doctrine.

 

Yes.

"The Baptism of the Holy Spirit" is an extrabiblical term.

I have not used that expression.

You expressed doubt that the scripture taught that anyone should "ask for the Spirit." I gave you a clear reference.

 

No, I believe I was more specific than that.
I was asking Awaken to give me a reference where anyone should ask for "the baptism of the Holy Spirit." I don't believe there is no such command.
The command is to ask for the filling of Holy Spirit (Eph.5:18), not the baptism, as the Charismatics stress.

 

That's quite a statement.

Philip (a deacon, not an apostle) performed miracles (Acts 8:6).

Moreover, Jesus promised that His followers would do greater works than He did (John 14:12), both in quantity and of a similar nature.

We should expect that God will manifest His power through His people as needed, according to His will.

 

You have not yet shared the Word as it is written. You twist, distort, ignore, mangle, deny the Word as it is written. That's what offends me.

 

I believe the Bible has shown us how the church started and how we should be able to operate! By the power of the Holy Spirit!

 

Yes! ...and AMEN! :applause::applause:

 

Signs and wonders confirm HIS WORD!

 

Indwelling and Upon are two different works of the Holy Spirit!

 

Well! I believe you ignore scriptures to prove your theory!

 

Let me try to make it a little clearer for you!

"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)

The key to understanding this passage is that Jesus gives examples of a son asking his father for a gift, and then He says that "your Father" will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask. In other words, if you are a Christian, a child of God, then you can ask your Father for the Holy Spirit. First you must be saved (at which point God becomes your heavenly Father - see John 1:12-13, Galatians 3:26, and 4:4-7), then you can ask for the Holy Spirit. But remember, when we become saved we automatically receive the indwelling Holy Spirit, we don't have to ask for Him! Yet Jesus says that God will give the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who ask for it. This gift, therefore, is not salvation (because we do not become saved by asking God for the Holy Spirit), but instead this gift is what the Bible calls the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit for receiving spiritual empowerment:

"On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. ... you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."" (Acts 1:4-8)

"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."" (Acts 10:44-47)

"As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?" (Acts 11:15-17)

This "baptism" is a gift of the Holy Spirit for receiving spiritual empowerment, and we can ask for this gift after we receive salvation (although God might sometimes give this gift to a person immediately after receiving salvation, as in Acts 10:44-47 and 11:15-17).

We can demonstrate this further by comparing Luke 11:13 with its parallel passage in Matthew:
"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:13)

"If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!" (Matthew 7:11)

Comparing these two passages, we can see that receiving the Holy Spirit is equated with receiving "good gifts." In other words, when we as Christians ask our Father for the Holy Spirit, He will give us the gift of being baptized with the Holy Spirit for our spiritual empowerment. Notice that salvation is not mentioned at all here, and in fact we do not become saved by asking for the Holy Spirit.

Since only Christians have been adopted as children of God (Ephesians 1:4-5), only Christians can ask our heavenly Father for the gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This demonstrates that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is only available to us after salvation.

 

Luke tells us Judas hung himself.
Jesus said "Go thou, and do likewise."

There must be some connection...

 

The Bible teaches that there are two kinds tongues. one being a language understood by the speaker, the hearer and God. (at Pentecost). The other is an ecstatic utterance unknown to the speaker and hearer unless they had the Gift of Interpretation, and God. (Corinthians 12-13-14)

 

This was posted...

Yes, and the sign gifts were for that period. To sort of get the gosple off to a brilliant start.

Not the sign gifts, no. We have The Holy Spirit in side of every christian, we we have Gods anointing, we have the entire scriptures, and we have the gosple.

 

I think you miss quoted me??? I did not post that...but I do agree with it!

Again, I did not post that! but I disagree with your theory! I agree with the one that posted it!

 

How do you get that the language was understood by the speaker on Pentecost? I do see that the hearers understood...but no where does it say that the one speaking in tongues knew what they were saying in another language!