Featured free will vs. election???????

That's a good question!

As D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones aptly says, both are truths, and we do so because we are commanded to do so!

Check out 2 Timothy 2:8-10 to see Paul's attitude in this:

'Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, the offspring of David, as preached in my gospel, for which I am suffering, bound with chains as a criminal. But the word of God is not bound! Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory'.

- Blessings

 

If they refuse to listen and learn they will never come. The message of God is important. If they will not allow the foot in the door what can you do but pray for them. It is always easy to say it is because of God, but they might of had a bad experiences with someone else.

 

the ONLY way that others will see the LOVE of God is through the people of God--so therefore it is the means by which he draws men--also by the preaching of God's word is the lost saved--whether some say that only some will be saved or some say that all will eventually be saved--it still remains that this same method is that which draws all men to Christ :godisgood:

 

both are right--Christ Atonement bought men back to God--which was lost through Adam--God chooses some in this generation,he chooses some in the next,and so on.

But others will reject that MANY(ALL)SHALL BE MADE RIGHTEOUS through 1 man's Obedience(Christ)

The shall be made here is a future tense statement that will be accomplished.

 

A few quotes from Spurgeon:

My text, however, cuts the ground from under your feet, if you seek to act thus, for it tells you this, which is all you need to know, that all who are God’s chosen ones may be known by this mark, that they come to Christ as he said, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me.” So that those who come to Christ are God’s chosen people, and those who live and die without coming to Christ are not God’s people. If you come to Christ and trust in him, you are one of those whom the Father gave to his Son. If you refuse to come to Christ,—it matters not what excuse you may make,— your blood will be upon your own head. You will perish if you do not come to Christ; and if you do not come to, him, it will be because you were not one of his sheep, neither did the Father give you to Christ. Rowland Hill, when he was asked to preach only to the elect, said that he would do so if somebody would chalk them on the back. That cannot be done; but God does, in process of time, mark them all, not on the back, but on the heart. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life, and his faith proves that he was chosen of God to that life; but he that believeth not on the Son, if he persists in that unbelief, will assuredly perish, for there shall be no deviation from this divine declaration, “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” That is the matter with which we have to deal; may God help us, like prudent man, to deal with it, earnestly!

______________________________________________________________

“Now,” says one, “Sir, I want to know one thing, and if I knew that, I would not care what happened. I want to know whether God from all eternity ordained me to be saved.” Well, friend, I will tell you how to find that out, and you may find it out to a certainty. “Nay,” says one, “but how can I know that? You cannot read the book of fate; that is impossible.” I have heard of some divine, of a very hyper school indeed, who said, “Ah! blessed be the Lord, there are some of God’s dear people here; I can tell them by the very look of their faces. I know that they are among God’s elect.” He was not half so discreet as Rowland Hill, who when he was advised to preach to none but the elect, said, “He would certainly do so if some one would chalk them all on the back first.” That was never attempted by anybody, so Rowland Hill went on preaching the gospel to every creature, as I desire to do. But you may find out whether you are among his chosen ones. “How?” says one. Why, Christ is the angel of the covenant, and you can find it out by looking to him. Many people want to know their election before they look to Christ. Beloved you cannot know your election, except as you see it in Christ. If you want to know your election, thus shall you assure your hearts before God.-Do you feel yourself this morning to be a lost, guilty sinner? go straightway to the cross of Christ, and tell Christ that, and tell him that you have read in the Bible, “That him that cometh unto him he will in no wise cast out.” Tell him that he has said, “This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation, that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners of whom you are chief.” Look to Christ and believe on him, and you shall make proof of your election directly, for so surely as thou believest thou art elect. If thou wilt give thyself wholly up to Christ and trust him, then thou art one of God’s chosen ones; but if you stop and say, “I want to know first whether I am elect,” that is impossible. If there be something covered up, and I say, “Now, before you can see this you must lift the veil;” and you say, “Nay, but I want to see right through that veil,” you cannot. Lift the veil first and you shall see. Go to Christ guilty, just as you are. Leave all curious inquiry about thy election alone. Go straight away to Christ, just as you are, black, naked, penniless and poor, and say,

“Nothing in my hands I bring,

Simply to thy cross I cling,”

and you shall know your election. The assurance of the Holy Spirit shall be given to you, so that you shall be able to say, “I know whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed to him.” Now do notice this. Christ was at the everlasting council: he can tell you whether you were chosen or not, but you cannot find that out anyhow else. You go and put your trust in him, and I know what the answer will be. His answer will be-”I have loved thee with an everlasting love, therefore in lovingkindness have I drawn thee.” There will be no doubt about his having chosen you, when you shall feel no doubt about having chosen him

 

No problem brother!

I think there is a level of frustration at times when people do not get it.

I remember when I was confronted with this truth, and I fought against it in my mind. But as I read the Scriptures, this truth became glaringly evident to the point I knelt beside my bed and gave God all the glory over it! I had to admit I was wrong, and He is absolutely Sovereign and correct. This sheds a lot of light on 'work out our salvation with fear and trembling'.

- Blessings

 

God is the one who knows all men hearts--he is the one who makes the heart good ground so that men may be saved--his working causes lost man to come unto him.

 

ahh brings back memories of when I was sitting at my computer reading a Spurgeon message--trying to argue a point and not understanding a certain point of that truth--God broke in my darkness and shined his Glorius light and I wept at my computer and apologized to God first for not believing his word and then apologized to Spurgeon for trying to argue a point of his message.

:godisgood::godisgood::godisgood:

 

Your illustration is demonstrating that MAN has to do something - that is works salvation at best.

Here is a better way:

The CEO (Father) of Heaven determines that certain members of a very large community (world) will be formed into a certain company (church) in which He has chosen to have mercy. "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

Of THOSE HE called, He gave the authority to the CFO (Jesus Christ) to write checks of redemption erasing all past, current, and future debts. "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out."

The CFO individually in the course of the working day of the chosen hand delivers to each the notice of redemption. "For by Grace you are saved through Faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the Gift of life."

Then it was noticed that the CEO had selected and the CFO had delivered, and some attempted to cover their lack of being chosen by hanging around those that were. "Parable of the virgins and oil."

But it was evident that those chosen worked harder, were more loyal, and cared for the reputation and enhancement of the company. "But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me."

Perhaps the greatest teaching on this is found in the translation work of the American Standard Bible which states:

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.​

(This shows that there is absolutely NO FREE WILL nor Freedom to choose)

Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.​

(This shows that NNE can claim any specialty or enhancement that caused God's eye to be cast upon them above everyone else.)

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.​

​

This shows that it is God who chooses and makes us alive together with Christ.

NOTICE - NO where is it taught that there is a general forgiveness of sins, nor even a general redemption offered to the world. To consider such is to deny this passage of Ephesians.

The believer is redeemed because God chose the person for redemption.
All the rest are lost because God chose not to redeem them.

Is God a bully for not choosing all. NOPE - He didn't have to choose any!!!

It is HIS perfect mercy and plan of redemption - not what we would like it to be.





This passage will clear up the misunderstanding between positions discussed on this thread.

Of course there will be those extremists on both sides who want to hold on to their own view - irregardless of the Scriptures.

 

That in itself says EVERYTHING.

You prayed to a Saint in lieu of God Almighty.

I think all non-Cal/Arminians now may officially rest their case.

Your witness.

 

you notice I never said I prayed to a dead saint ?

I apologized to God FIRST I mentioned and secondly was sorry that I had argued with spurgeons message.

Blessings to you Brother and mercy from the Lord himself :love2::love2:

Seems you are like the scribes was to jesus--was looking for anything in his words or deeds that they might condemn him before people:jesus:

 

also if perhaps I didn't make it more clearer by what I meant--that I am sorry for doing--but on your part,before you start to condemn men--you could at least ask them what they meant by what they said before hand:godisgood:

 

NO-SIR.......I don't have to.

You said what you said.
And you said that you "apologized" to a dead man.

What you said is all that needs to be said. If an Arminian had said.............."After reading that link, and read what it said, I wept and apologized to God for mis-interpreting his Scripture, and then.......apoologized to Jacobus Arminius for mis-construing your teaching and fighting against your truth"............then EVERY Calvinist on this board would be on it like:

1.) White on Rice
2.) a Fat kid on Cake
3.) Stink on S_ _ t

etc.......

You are a Calvininist...........and you are BUSTED!!!

I quote the Scriptures to testify against you:
Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

You are busted........and you (in YOUR OWN WORDS) "apologized" to a dead saint.

I leave you with the advice I often leave others.

Quit while you are behind. You are busted, and won't get away with it.

 

I agree and see the same things.

- Blessings

 

:thumbs: Amen!!!

 

So...........P4T also "apologizes" to dead Saints and "apologizes" (in your own words if I quote you correctly) inasmuch as you agree with H.W.:

P4T prays to dead Saints.


I accuse P4T then of praying to dead Saints.

I call that "blasphemy".

 

actually dear Brother you are wrong--Spurgeon is not dead --he is alive!!!

and how do you not know if he was looking from Heaven that very same min and beholding what was happening ?? you don't

Furthermore I was stating that I was sorry unto Spurgeon--I know he isn't alive in the flesh and nor do men pray to saints--but God alone.

I think your pride and arrogance is getting the best of you here Brother.

Carefull in condemning the work of God in another believer--it just might be that you call down Judgement upon your own life.

Ill pray for you and do wish God's blessings upon you :godisgood::godisgood:

 

Brother if you had your father dieing at an early age and you mistreated him while he was alive--would you not be sorry unto him for your deeds ??

the answer is YES if you are truly a Christian--and so my example that I gave is of the same sort here.

 

You "apologized" to a dead man...........

you said so in the EXACT SAME sentence in which you said you "Aplogized to God"........you then, IN THE SAME sentence said "I also apologized to Spurgeon"

Those are the quotes.............YOU SAID IT....and it's demonstrable.

I will put your own quotes before you again:

That is PRECISELY what you said.....from the horse's mouth.

You are busted.