has there Been ANy Newrevelations since Apostle John died from God?

[targus]

In all of these areas I test the messages that I read from Ellen White in the cases where she claims the message comes from God - and so far - I have found them to be accurate and approved by the Bible test.

I do not find that to be the case with Joseph Smith or with Methodists like Oral Roberts or Kenneth Copeland.

So you say...

Then why won't you give us an example of one of her supposed messages and then walk us through the tests that you applied that show them to be "accurate" and "approved by the Bible test"?

How many times and how many ways do I need to ask? :laugh:

 

[targus]

Bumped for BobRyan

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Did copeland/smith/white ANY get revelation from God since canon was closed?

No one <got revelation from God since Canon was closed>, but MUCH—much TRUTH—has been revealed or exposed or discovered since the Canon was closed—and further back since the apostles themselves.

Discovery or revelation is to see what everyone all the time has been looking at, but then to THINK what no one else has thought.

To discover Jesus Christ in the Scriptures is Scripture revealed. J.S. Bach knew better than David himself when he wrote, “Denn das Lob ist mir in allen auf das lieblichste gefallen, du, du, bist mein Eigentum, Jesu Christu”! Bach saw “Christ the ALL in all fulfilling FULLNESS of God” in David’s Psalm as David himself could not.
Such ‘revelations’ have been many and great throughout Christian history—but always and without exception they were ‘revelations’ or ‘discoveries’ FROM the Scriptures. No true ‘revelation’ since the close of the Canon has been received or made in addition to, or, contrary to, the Scriptures, ever!

And it is easy to say when a discovery or disclosure or revelation of Scripture is truth and trustworthy. Does it reveal or discover JESUS CHRIST in the Scriptures, Yes; or, No?

Now even if Mrs E.G. White exalted Jesus Christ, it must have been God who through his Holy Spirit revealed her exaltation of Him to her. Just like when you or I discover Christ in the Scriptures it MUST be none of our own doing and only God’s doing.

I do not hesitate to claim that God has revealed Christ to me from his Written Word; not for no moment!

Don’t you?

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by targus
How do you know that God has given prophetic messages through Ellen White?

Why do you accept her as a prophet and not others?

She supposedly wrote over fifty books - it should be easy for you to pick out a few sentences somewhere and explain to us how her words are a message from God.

How do you know that Ellen White did not just "make stuff up" and that you have not simply bought into a huge lie?

The Bible tells us to accept the messages God gives to His prophets for the church (see 1Thess 5:19-20, Isaiah 8) and to "desire earnestly spiritual gifts especially that you may prophesy" 1Cor 14:1.

But God also tells us to "test the spirits" and to discern between true prophets and false prophets (1Johh 4:1-3). Notice that God does not say "the test is - the prophet has to be named the Apostle John" when giving this message to John in 1John 4:1 - as so many have imagined the test to be.

In 1John 4 a test - is that they have to teach and promote the fact that Jesus is the Son of God who came in the flesh in the incarnation.

In Isaiah 8:20 the test is that the prophet's message claimed to be from God must also be judged by and tested by the doctrines as stated in the Bible itself. (This is why I find it pointless to discuss the subject of a true or false prophet with someone before first discussing the subject of basic Bible doctrines.)

And another example is that the message must be found to be accurate and true in terms of events, past, present, future as it is claimed that God is making the statement - God is giving the message to a prophet.

Just a few examples of this can be found here -
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-prophecy-Ellen_White-true-predictions-Bible

However I do not claim that proven predictions alone make one a valid prophet - the Bible test of Isaiah 8:20 is key.

(Since a number of quotes and predictions at that link involve health -- it is Interesting that the Journal of the American Medical Assoc came out with this study related to health and Seventh-day Adventists --
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...41042514.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLE_Video_second)

In all of these areas I test the messages that I read from Ellen White in the cases where she claims the message comes from God - and so far - I have found them to be accurate and approved by the Bible test.

I do not find that to be the case with Joseph Smith or with Methodists like Oral Roberts or Kenneth Copeland.

So you say...

Then why won't you give us an example of one of her supposed messages

So then we had that long list of prediction and then there was that WSJ article reporting on the "results" of those predictions in the health study done as reported in the Journal of the AMA this year.

And as far as doctrine goes - there is always the fact that she agrees with the Bible on the subject of the origin of the Sabbath - right where the Baptist Confession of Faith - ALSO agrees is the Bible origin for Sabbath -- and yet you differ.

Shall we dig into that one --- more?

I think you would agree that her view that the Bible origin for the 4th Commandment as given to all mankind - in Eden - is in perfect agreement with the Bible and the Baptist Confession of Faith - 1689 - -but you choose to differ.

Even so - I think even you would admit that I would not be so obligated to oppose both the Bible and the Baptist Confession of Faith - and the message God gave Ellen White - on that subject of the origin of the 4th Commandment in Genesis 2:3.

Thus we have one clear point of testing that even you would be hard pressed to ignore.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[targus]

And another example is that the message must be found to be accurate and true in terms of events, past, present, future as it is claimed that God is making the statement - God is giving the message to a prophet.

Ellen White FAILS on this test over and over and over.

Why isn't that enough for you to come out of the SDA cult?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

In all of these areas I test the messages that I read from Ellen White in the cases where she claims the message comes from God - and so far - I have found them to be accurate and approved by the Bible test.

Was 'The Desire of Ages' such an <accurate and approved by the Bible ... case ... where the message (s) ... (came) from God>?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Even so - I think even you would admit that I would not be so obligated to oppose both the Bible and the Baptist Confession of Faith

Bob Ryan, any honest man would oppose, refute and reject and denounce the Baptist Confession of Faith if he had the difference with it with regard to the Day of Worship, the Sabbath Day that YOU HAVE!

You don't have a clue what shame is; that's your problem.

PS
… and you insult the intelligence of your opponents.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by targus
How do you know that God has given prophetic messages through Ellen White?

Why do you accept her as a prophet and not others?

She supposedly wrote over fifty books - it should be easy for you to pick out a few sentences somewhere and explain to us how her words are a message from God.

How do you know that Ellen White did not just "make stuff up" and that you have not simply bought into a huge lie

========================

The Bible tells us to accept the messages God gives to His prophets for the church (see 1Thess 5:19-20, Isaiah 8) and to "desire earnestly spiritual gifts especially that you may prophesy" 1Cor 14:1.

But God also tells us to "test the spirits" and to discern between true prophets and false prophets (1Johh 4:1-3). Notice that God does not say "the test is - the prophet has to be named the Apostle John" when giving this message to John in 1John 4:1 - as so many have imagined the test to be.

In 1John 4 a test - is that they have to teach and promote the fact that Jesus is the Son of God who came in the flesh in the incarnation.

In Isaiah 8:20 the test is that the prophet's message claimed to be from God must also be judged by and tested by the doctrines as stated in the Bible itself. (This is why I find it pointless to discuss the subject of a true or false prophet with someone before first discussing the subject of basic Bible doctrines.)

And another example is that the message must be found to be accurate and true in terms of events, past, present, future as it is claimed that God is making the statement - God is giving the message to a prophet.

Just a few examples of this can be found here -
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-prophecy-Ellen_White-true-predictions-Bible

However I do not claim that proven predictions alone make one a valid prophet - the Bible test of Isaiah 8:20 is key.

(Since a number of quotes and predictions at that link involve health -- it is Interesting that the Journal of the American Medical Assoc came out with this study related to health and Seventh-day Adventists --
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...41042514.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLE_Video_second)

In all of these areas I test the messages that I read from Ellen White in the cases where she claims the message comes from God - and so far - I have found them to be accurate and approved by the Bible test.

I do not find that to be the case with Joseph Smith or with Methodists like Oral Roberts or Kenneth Copeland.


So then we had that long list of prediction and then there was that WSJ article reporting on the "results" of those predictions in the health study done as reported in the Journal of the AMA this year.

And as far as doctrine goes - there is always the fact that she agrees with the Bible on the subject of the origin of the Sabbath - right where the Baptist Confession of Faith - ALSO agrees is the Bible origin for Sabbath -- and yet you differ.

Shall we dig into that one --- more?

I think you would agree that her view that the Bible origin for the 4th Commandment as given to all mankind - in Eden - is in perfect agreement with the Bible and the Baptist Confession of Faith - 1689 - -but you choose to differ.

Even so - I think even you would admit that I would not be so obligated to oppose both the Bible and the Baptist Confession of Faith - and the message God gave Ellen White - on that subject of the origin of the 4th Commandment in Genesis 2:3.

Thus we have one clear point of testing that even you would be hard pressed to ignore.

Ellen White FAILS on this test...

until we actually "look" at the details above - that you are so carefully avoiding.

Are we simply not supposed to notice that lack of substance in your response?

Really?

You expect all the unbiased objective readers not to "notice"??

Come on - be serious for a second.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Bob Ryan, any honest man would oppose, refute and reject and denounce the Baptist Confession of Faith --- (obligatory rant deleted here)

You are welcome to do with it as you wish.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

You are welcome to do with it as you wish.

in Christ,

Bob

The offices of BOTh the Apostle/prophet are closed since death of John, as Go dhas sent NO further revealtions to us since that time!

Ellen White doctrines against revealtion of God in Bible, so false prophetess!

 

[targus]

...until we actually "look" at the details above - that you are so carefully avoiding.

Are we simply not supposed to notice that lack of substance in your response?

Really?

You expect all the unbiased objective readers not to "notice"??

Come on - be serious for a second.

No need for me to list out Ellen White's countless factual errors and down right kooky claims. Anyone can google it for themselves.

And yes, unbiased objective readers take notice.

Talk about getting serious for a second!:laugh:

Tell me about the giant space aliens that she claims to have seen. :laugh:

And how a mother that wears tight clothes passes a small waist to her children?

Or how wearing wigs causes insanity?

Or her false predictions that England would declare war on the U.S.?

Or that people alive in 1856 would still be living when Jesus returns?

Really, there is just too much to list in one post - or even thread.

 

[BobRyan]

The Bible tells us to accept the messages God gives to His prophets for the church (see 1Thess 5:19-20, Isaiah 8) and to "desire earnestly spiritual gifts especially that you may prophesy" 1Cor 14:1.

But God also tells us to "test the spirits" and to discern between true prophets and false prophets (1Johh 4:1-3). Notice that God does not say "the test is - the prophet has to be named the Apostle John" when giving this message to John in 1John 4:1 - as so many have imagined the test to be.

In 1John 4 a test - is that they have to teach and promote the fact that Jesus is the Son of God who came in the flesh in the incarnation.

In Isaiah 8:20 the test is that the prophet's message claimed to be from God must also be judged by and tested by the doctrines as stated in the Bible itself. (This is why I find it pointless to discuss the subject of a true or false prophet with someone before first discussing the subject of basic Bible doctrines.)

And another example is that the message must be found to be accurate and true in terms of events, past, present, future as it is claimed that God is making the statement - God is giving the message to a prophet.

Just a few examples of this can be found here -
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-prop...dictions-Bible

However I do not claim that proven predictions alone make one a valid prophet - the Bible test of Isaiah 8:20 is key.

(Since a number of quotes and predictions at that link involve health -- it is Interesting that the Journal of the American Medical Assoc came out with this study related to health and Seventh-day Adventists --
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...E_Video_second)

In all of these areas I test the messages that I read from Ellen White in the cases where she claims the message comes from God - and so far - I have found them to be accurate and approved by the Bible test.

I do not find that to be the case with Joseph Smith or with Methodists like Oral Roberts or Kenneth Copeland.


So then we had that long list of prediction and then there was that WSJ article reporting on the "results" of those predictions in the health study done as reported in the Journal of the AMA this year.

And as far as doctrine goes - there is always the fact that she agrees with the Bible on the subject of the origin of the Sabbath - right where the Baptist Confession of Faith - ALSO agrees is the Bible origin for Sabbath -- and yet you differ.

Shall we dig into that one --- more?

I think you would agree that her view that the Bible origin for the 4th Commandment as given to all mankind - in Eden - is in perfect agreement with the Bible and the Baptist Confession of Faith - 1689 - -but you choose to differ.

Even so - I think even you would admit that I would not be so obligated to oppose both the Bible and the Baptist Confession of Faith - and the message God gave Ellen White - on that subject of the origin of the 4th Commandment in Genesis 2:3.

Thus we have one clear point of testing that even you would be hard pressed to ignore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by targus
Ellen White FAILS on this test...

until we actually "look" at the details above - that you are so carefully avoiding.

Are we simply not supposed to notice that lack of substance in your response?

Really?

You expect all the unbiased objective readers not to "notice"??

Come on - be serious for a second.

No need for me to list out Ellen White's countless ...

I am not claiming that you must pay attention to the details.

Just if you want to be taken seriously.

Recall that you are the one who insisted that this evidence be presented. The fact that you have no answer is not my fault.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[targus]

I am not claiming that you must pay attention to the details.

Just if you want to be taken seriously.

Recall that you are the one who insisted that this evidence be presented. The fact that you have no answer is not my fault.

So are there giant unfallen space aliens on other planets watching us as Ellen White claimed?

Does a mother wearing tight clothes pass a small waist to her children as Ellen White claimed?

Does wearing wigs causes insanity as Ellen White claimed?

Did England would declare war on the U.S. as Ellen White predicted?

Will any of the people alive in 1856 still be living when Jesus returns as Ellen White predicted?

 

[BobRyan]

Are you asking me if I am the one that knows more than God about what planets and life He created in all the universe - or are you asking if I think you know more than God about it?? And what part of "Bible test" of doctrine are you supposedly using?

As for health predictions - I assume you did not even read the Journal of the AMA 2013 article on the result of Seventh-day Adventist life styles that follow the direction God gave to Ellen White.

Jonah said that in 40 days Nineveh would be destroyed - did that happen? or is Jeremiah 18 actually true in that regard?

It seems like everyone of your frail assumptions is working against your POV.

 

[targus]

Are you asking me if I am the one that knows more than God about what planets and life He created in all the universe - or are you asking if I think you know more than God about it?? And what part of "Bible test" of doctrine are you supposedly using?

As for health predictions - I assume you did not even read the Journal of the AMA 2013 article on the result of Seventh-day Adventist life styles that follow the direction God gave to Ellen White.

Jonah said that in 40 days Nineveh would be destroyed - did that happen? or is Jeremiah 18 actually true in that regard?

It seems like everyone of your frail assumptions is working against your POV.

Let's take just one simple one...

Does wearing wigs cause insanity as Ellen White claimed?

 

[Yeshua1]

Are you asking me if I am the one that knows more than God about what planets and life He created in all the universe - or are you asking if I think you know more than God about it?? And what part of "Bible test" of doctrine are you supposedly using?

As for health predictions - I assume you did not even read the Journal of the AMA 2013 article on the result of Seventh-day Adventist life styles that follow the direction God gave to Ellen White.

Jonah said that in 40 days Nineveh would be destroyed - did that happen? or is Jeremiah 18 actually true in that regard?

It seems like everyone of your frail assumptions is working against your POV.

She denied the truth of the Gospel that we are saved by Grace alone, faith alone, so THAT makes her false, not of the Lord!

 

[targus]

Let's take just one simple one...

Does wearing wigs cause insanity as Ellen White claimed?

Bumped for BobRyan...

Just paying attention to the details as you asked.

 

[BobRyan]

In the October 1871 issue of The Health Reformer, [1] Ellen White wrote of "hurtful indulgences" that militate against the highest interests and happiness of women. Among these "indulgences" she included wigs that, "covering the base of the brain, heat and excite the spinal nerves centering in the brain." As a result of "following this deforming fashion," she said, "many have lost their reason, and become hopelessly insane."
In the context of today's comfortable wigs, critics tend to ridicule this statement. But Mrs. White was referring to an entirely different product. The wigs she described were "monstrous bunches of curled hair, cotton, seagrass, wool, Spanish moss, and other multitudinous abominations." [2] One woman said that her chignon generated "an unnatural degree of heat in the back part of the head" and produced "a distracting headache just as long as it was worn."
Another Health Reformer article (quoting from the Marshall Statesman and the Springfield Republican) described the perils of wearing "jute switches"--wigs made from dark, fibrous bark. Apparently these switches were often infested with "jute bugs," small insects that burrowed under the scalp. One woman reported that her head became raw, and her hair began to fall out. Her entire scalp "was perforated with the burrowing parasites." "The lady . . . is represented as nearly crazy from the terrible suffering, and from the prospect of the horrible death which physicians do not seem able to avert." [3]
With reports such as this in the public press, it is easy to understand why Ellen White would warn women against the possible dangers of wearing wigs and trying to "keep pace with changing fashion, merely to create a sensation." [4]