Featured Calvinism and the Love of God

Amen!!:thumbs:

 

So if a calvinist sees a scripture that says God loves all people, and accepts that scritpure...and then sees another scripture that says God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world, and actually thinks that it means God chose US...not just chose Christ...and he accepts both verses as true...what alternative does he have?

Both of these are valid questions. One is not more valid than another, unless we somehow believe that Something fundamental in God's attributes changed when he created the world...That he was not sovereign...and then all the sudden he was.

Cal or non-cal, the simple fact is that if you agree with God's perfect knowledge of future events...then you must conclude that God created a whole bunch of people that HE KNEW would reject him and spend eternity separated from him...He knew it, and he created them anyway. Non-cal theology does not fix this problem.

Put in a more personal way, one poster on here says...

If Calvinism is true, and my son is not elect, but I desire him to be saved and would do anything to bring him to salvation, then I love my son more than God loves him...

But on the flip side, if Arminianism is true, and My son is stubbornly rebellious, and I knew if he didn't repent he would go to hell...I as a loving Father would do ANYTHING to change his mind...if I had the power to forcefully overcome his stubborn will for his own good, I would do it! If Arminianism is true, and God DOES have the power to overcome his will, but chooses not to out of respect for his free will, then I love my son more than God loves him.

 

I agree totally :thumbsup:

 

And, you're so 'Doctorly'.

 

Absolutely not....your in a good place where you can grow in the Lord....nothing wrong with that brother. :smilewinkgrin:

 

Even Though I grew up less than a mile from WV, I don't think I understand this analogy...anyway, I recommend Hanes, and not hanging out with rabid dogs.

 

Here is my question....If the Doc / Shadow Warrior (LOL) is so ready to make war on Calvinists, then why choose BB to vent his rants? I dont have to point out that there are other Internet forums that are far more hard core Calvinist than this one for throwing bombs, like The Calvinist Cafe & The Puritan Forum -- Hint, Hint, (Where there is a Marine Lieutenant Colonel ready to do battle ... Im sure he would be amused). :smilewinkgrin:

 

... cause you will get infected with some nasty crud:smilewinkgrin:

 

Don't know about the Café, but I seriously doubt PB would tolerate this troublemaker, he would be short-lived there.

 

I got a strong feeling that he has already traveled there & didnt make it through coffee.

 

That is always the best.

After all the ultimate teacher is the Holy Spirit, and He will always use the Scriptures for truth and principles in practical living experiences.


For those who would like a Scripture passage for the above sentence of the wisdom the Holy Spirit imparts to the teachable believer:

Proverbs 3:

My son, do not forget my teaching,
But let your heart keep my commandments;
2 For length of days and years of life
And peace they will add to you.
3 Do not let kindness and truth leave you;
Bind them around your neck,
Write them on the tablet of your heart.
4 So you will find favor and good repute
In the sight of God and man.
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the Lord and turn away from evil.
8 It will be healing to your body
And refreshment to your bones.
9 Honor the Lord from your wealth
And from the first of all your produce;
10 So your barns will be filled with plenty
And your vats will overflow with new wine.
11 My son, do not reject the discipline of the Lord
Or loathe His reproof,
12 For whom the Lord loves He reproves,
Even as a father corrects the son in whom he delights.

13 How blessed is the man who finds wisdom
And the man who gains understanding.
14 For her profit is better than the profit of silver
And her gain better than fine gold.
15 She is more precious than jewels;
And nothing you desire compares with her.
16 Long life is in her right hand;
In her left hand are riches and honor.
17 Her ways are pleasant ways
And all her paths are peace.
18 She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her,
And happy are all who hold her fast.
19 The Lord by wisdom founded the earth,
By understanding He established the heavens.
20 By His knowledge the deeps were broken up
And the skies drip with dew.
21 My son, let them not vanish from your sight;
Keep sound wisdom and discretion,
22 So they will be life to your soul
And adornment to your neck.
23Then you will walk in your way securely
And your foot will not stumble.
24 When you lie down, you will not be afraid;
When you lie down, your sleep will be sweet.
25Do not be afraid of sudden fear
Nor of the onslaught of the wicked when it comes;
26 For the Lord will be your confidence
And will keep your foot from being caught.

27 Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due,
When it is in your power to do it.
28 Do not say to your neighbor, “Go, and come back,
And tomorrow I will give it,”
When you have it with you.
29 Do not devise harm against your neighbor,
While he lives securely beside you.
30 Do not contend with a man without cause,
If he has done you no harm.
31 Do not envy a man of violence
And do not choose any of his ways.
32 For the devious are an abomination to the Lord;
But He is intimate with the upright.
33 The curse of the Lord is on the house of the wicked,
But He blesses the dwelling of the righteous.
34 Though He scoffs at the scoffers,
Yet He gives grace to the afflicted.
35 The wise will inherit honor,
But fools display dishonor.

​

 

OH, Please, Please.

Go back and reread, and post EXACTLY were I stated "I'm right, you're wrong. I win. See I told you were refuted."

You can't.


Sometimes folks seem to just explode without even looking for truth in what a person who has the audacity to oppose the thinking on some thread when reading a post on another thread.

Do not some assume that everything that doesn't agree with the view is heretical teaching?

Do not some contend because they just can't stand to conduct a discourse with someone - not thinking first of what was actually stated - because of some preconceived view based upon the experiences, education, nature and nurture of that person.


So, go back and post exactly were I stated those exact words.

Of course, I could use the typical non-cal deluge of inaccuracies that is spouted without merit - we all know the list: demean the poster, disparage other views, twist the Scriptures to mean what they don't by redefining terms, constructing strawman arguments, ...

All of these and more the non-cal group uses, too.

The non-cal's are just as guilty as the cal group they seek to demean.

Like I stated, "It does seem that there is plenty of that claim to slather all over the toast of the non-cal argument."

 

You are right, I missed his first name.

It wouldn't be funny except that WE BOTH are wrong,

It was James (English version of Jacobus) Arminius.

In your haste to blanket out any truth, you yourself are found wanting.

Do you have the veracity to express your own error?

 

That is hilarious!:laugh::laugh:

Can I use it, too?

I wonder what my wife's reaction would be if I said that when she has her "time to straighten out hubby" days, weeks, months ----- eons. raying:

 

Narcissistic personality, perhaps? He comes across like that. I'd love to see him over on the Cafe or PF.

 

God's love is primarily towards those He is in a covenant relationship with!

must God love all people equally, or even at all?

 

I've learned 2 things in this thread:

1) Convicted1 is coming along just fine.

2) Ach? Not so much. Ach continues to get pummeled with truth from the 'Calvinists'.

 

This person should have been banned on day one. Not one edifying or meaningful post has come out of his keyboard.

 

First of all, the "Dr" calls anyone who believes in God's sovereignty and grace a "Calvinist," even when he knows many on that side despise the label. It is nothing but a tool to irritate. Secondly, for all the training in Scripture he claims to have acquired, he turns right around and denies the Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the attributes They need to be God, as close as man can understand His nature.

The "Dr" relegates God to a status of being unable to control His Creation, basically leaderless. God is unable to exercise his sovereignty and grace, and needs the help of man to achieve His goals. Think about this poster singing "For the Lord is a great God, and a great King above all gods, in His hands are the depths of the earth and the heights of the mountains are His." He would sing "In His hands are small pot holes, and I will let man invent drilling machines to reach the depths of the earth, and the heights of the hills will turn into mountains when man heaps more dirt on them."

The same God that made the earth revolve around the sun at an exact distance for life, the complex closed systems to sustain life we have here on earth, the rest of the universe, all created by the Lord, and God needs man to carry out His plan.

So tell us, when Christ was on the cross, did He carry to whole burden, or was it too much for Him and the thieves on either side of Him took some of the load?

Have you really read the Bible? Was the Holy Spirit there with you when you did?

You can cite all the cut and paste articles you want, God is God, and not some lesser being. Every breath we take is a gift of God, and without Him, not another keystroke would come from your ingenious mind.

As I have said before, and stand four square behind it, you can make your posts as long as you want, they ring hollow.