Pope Sanctions Gay Clergy!

[DHK]

"Who Am I to Judge?"

During a press conference held during his return flight from Brazil, at the end of his first foreign trip since being named pope in March, Francis said he would not judge priests for their sexual orientation, a startlingly candid comment considering some previous popes didn’t even hold press conferences.
"If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?" he asked, according to the Canadian Press.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/am-judge-pope-francis-says-gay-clergy-145515029.html?vp=1

Another virulent step down into the abyss of sin.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

"Who Am I to Judge?"
[/I]


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/am-judge-pope-francis-says-gay-clergy-145515029.html?vp=1

Another virulent step down into the abyss of sin.

I'm on your side in this matter.:thumbs:

 

[KJVRICH]

wonder why he is stopping at "gay-clergy", why not condone gay lay people?

 

[KJVRICH]

do you think the pope has even read the Bible ?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

do you think the pope has even read the Bible ?

well when he comes out of the closet, he will answer all your questions for you....just give it time. But know this....the homosexuals have one the day regarding Catholicism. Its now as vile as the Episcopal Church ever was.

 

[KJVRICH]

well when he comes out of the closet, he will answer all your questions for you....just give it time. But know this....the homosexuals have one the day regarding Catholicism. Its now as vile as the Episcopal Church ever was.

agreed!

interesting that he has said " who am I to judge", what about all the other sins that priests hear in confession??? they can judge that ? only homosexuality is for God to judge ?

 

[Nevada]

I heard a Methodist minister say that when the Catholic Church instituted celibacy centuries ago, it institutionalized homosexuality.

 

[Walter]

"Who Am I to Judge?"
[/I]


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/am-judge-pope-francis-says-gay-clergy-145515029.html?vp=1

Another virulent step down into the abyss of sin.

So quick to judge and condemn the Catholic Church. Did the pope say he condones homosexual acts, gay marriage, or any kind of homosexual activity.

I happen to know a Baptist who is homosexual and lives a life of celibacy because of it. Is he sinning? He isn't acting on it.

 

[Walter]

well when he comes out of the closet, he will answer all your questions for you....just give it time. But know this....the homosexuals have one the day regarding Catholicism. Its now as vile as the Episcopal Church ever was.

No, DHK left out what else the pope has said (conveniently).The pope said the message 'in the Catechism that while a gay person is to be accepted, acting out on homosexual acts is to be deplored: “under no circumstances can they be approved … Homosexual persons are called to chastity.” Francis, who cited the Catechism in his answers to reporters, said nothing to contradict this. Asked for his position on gay marriage, he answered: “You know perfectly the position of the Church.”

While are quick to say that the Catholic Church is 'now as vile as the Episcopal Church ever was' you obviously don't know what your talking about. The Episcopal Church ordains non-celibate gay priests, deacons and Bishops and even has given the green light to same-sex unions (marriages). That Catholic Church has never, nor will ever do so.

I know plenty of Baptists who have nothing but hatred in their hearts for homosexuals whether or not they are acting on their orientation or not. Some Baptists demonstrate at funerals of gay people celebrating their death. Never heard of a Catholic do such a deplorable thing. Wonder who has the real love of Jesus in their hearts.

 

[DHK]

No, DHK left out what else the pope has said (conveniently).The pope said the message 'in the Catechism that while a gay person is to be accepted, acting out on homosexual acts is to be deplored: “under no circumstances can they be approved … Homosexual persons are called to chastity.” Francis, who cited the Catechism in his answers to reporters, said nothing to contradict this. Asked for his position on gay marriage, he answered: “You know perfectly the position of the Church.”

While are quick to say that the Catholic Church is 'now as vile as the Episcopal Church ever was' you obviously don't know what your talking about. The Episcopal Church ordains non-celibate gay priests, deacons and Bishops and even has given the green light to same-sex unions (marriages). That Catholic Church has never, nor will ever do so.

I know plenty of Baptists who have nothing but hatred in their hearts for homosexuals whether or not they are acting on their orientation or not. Some Baptists demonstrate at funerals of gay people celebrating their death. Never heard of a Catholic do such a deplorable thing. Wonder who has the real love of Jesus in their hearts.

This is a change whether the RCC (and you) like it or not.

Pope Francis reached out to gays, saying he won't judge priests for their sexual orientation in a remarkably open and wide-ranging news conference Monday as he returned from his first foreign trip.

"If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?" Francis asked. "We shouldn't marginalize people for this. They must be integrated into society."

Francis' predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, signed a document in 2005 that said men who had deep-rooted homosexual tendencies should not be priests. Francis was much more conciliatory in his first news conference as pope, saying gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.

The comments did not signal any change in church policy. Catholic teaching still holds that homosexual acts are "intrinsically disordered." But they indicated a shift in tone under Francis' young papacy and an emphasis on a church that is more inclusive and merciful rather than critical and disciplinary.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/pope-francis-on-priests-sexual-orientation-who-am-i-to-judge-1.1388129


The change is simple:
DON'T JUDGE THEM!
FORGET ABOUT THEIR SIN! ONLY GOD JUDGE'S SIN (FALSE)


Is it really true? Do we truly forgive and forget?
Is that why Jews have been hunting down Nazi-sympathizers; collaborators, etc. all these years?
Or were the Jews just to suppose to forget the Holocaust never happened and revise history like some would love to pretend.

We don't "forget" history.
We don't forget" the Crusades, the Inquistions, the bloody massacres, and God has not forgiven them. They will stand before the Great White Throne Judgment some day, and there be judged for their crimes and be sent to the lake of fire. God does not forget.



We do not forget history. History is not full of blank pages.

What a lark!

 

[Walter]

This is a change whether the RCC (and you) like it or not.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/pope-francis-on-priests-sexual-orientation-who-am-i-to-judge-1.1388129


The change is simple:
DON'T JUDGE THEM!
FORGET ABOUT THEIR SIN! ONLY GOD JUDGE'S SIN (FALSE)


Is it really true? Do we truly forgive and forget?
Is that why Jews have been hunting down Nazi-sympathizers; collaborators, etc. all these years?
Or were the Jews just to suppose to forget the Holocaust never happened and revise history like some would love to pretend.

We don't "forget" history.
We don't forget" the Crusades, the Inquistions, the bloody massacres, and God has not forgiven them. They will stand before the Great White Throne Judgment some day, and there be judged for their crimes and be sent to the lake of fire. God does not forget.



We do not forget history. History is not full of blank pages.

What a lark!

That is a lie, DHK. He never said anything about forgetting about their sin. If they act on their same-sex orientation then he said the Church condemns it. You are saying that people with same-sex orientation are automatically consigned to hell, even if they live a life of celibacy. Glad your not God!

 

[Walter]

Again, DHK, because you intentionally ignore it because of your hatred of the Catholic Church: "The pope said the message 'in the Catechism that while a gay person is to be accepted, acting out on homosexual acts is to be deplored: “under no circumstances can they be approved … Homosexual persons are called to chastity.” Francis, who cited the Catechism in his answers to reporters, said nothing to contradict this. Asked for his position on gay marriage, he answered: “You know perfectly the position of the Church.”

 

[Salty]

Sidebar - priest in the Salt City encourged by the remarks of the Pope

 

[DHK]

Again, DHK, because you intentionally ignore it because of your hatred of the Catholic Church: "The pope said the message 'in the Catechism that while a gay person is to be accepted, acting out on homosexual acts is to be deplored: “under no circumstances can they be approved … Homosexual persons are called to chastity.” Francis, who cited the Catechism in his answers to reporters, said nothing to contradict this. Asked for his position on gay marriage, he answered: “You know perfectly the position of the Church.”

His exact words:

"Speaking with reporters, Pope Francis said homosexual acts are a sin, but "if a person is gay and seeks god and good will, who am I to judge?"

If he doesn't want to judge I will do it for him.
I will place myself in the place of Christ and have every right to do so, for the Bible says: "Judge righteous judgment" (John 7:20).
The Bible condemns homosexuality. We are to judge it as sin. Those who commit such acts are to repent of them. One is not to throw up their arms and in naivete say "Who am I to judge?"
He knows better. The sin is to be condemned with all the harshness and condemnation that the Bible gives to it. It is an abomination to the Lord. It is not "Who am I to judge?"
Rather: "GOD HAS JUDGED ALREADY!"

(ESV) But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

 

[BobRyan]

"Who Am I to Judge?"
[/I]


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/am-judge-pope-francis-says-gay-clergy-145515029.html?vp=1

Another virulent step down into the abyss of sin.

Interesting "Who am I to judge" - given the contents of supposedly infallible decrees of Lateran IV calling for the "extermination" of heretics.

But that aside - the article said this

Pope Francis made comments on Monday that appeared to be a significant concession in the way the Catholic Church viewed homosexuality, at least in relation to homosexuality within the ranks of the clergy.

During a press conference held during his return flight from Brazil, at the end of his first foreign trip since being named pope in March, Francis said he would not judge priests for their sexual orientation, a startlingly candid comment considering some previous popes didn’t even hold press conferences.


"If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?" he asked, according to the Canadian Press.


The comment followed a question about an Italian news report alleging one of his trusted aides had been involved in a gay romance. Francis said he had investigated the allegations and found nothing criminal. He added that when someone sins and confesses, God forgives and forgets.

It is unclear from that statement if the Pope is talking about a gay person that confesses that this is sin and repents of it and asks God to forgive them - or if he is speaking of someone living in sin.

Since priests are not even supposed to have relations with women - let alone other men - it is not clear that the Pope was spinning that one to anything other than "celibacy" as the only accepted standard for priests - since that is what they demand currently.

As for the "trusted aide" if that aide was celebate (supposedly) then the context may be that of an aide determined to remain celebate despite falling into sin.

I don't know enough about the case in question but clearly the press is trying to swing it as if this is an open door policy for homosexual priests.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

All he is doing is encouraging sinning...is that obedience to Christ? When Francis 1st took the office of Grand Pubah at the RC, many had high hopes he would clean it up...however its now apparent he is just another in a long line of paper tigers...and it is VERY DISAPPOINTING!

 

[Walter]

Interesting "Who am I to judge" - given the contents of supposedly infallible decrees of Lateran IV calling for the "extermination" of heretics.

But that aside - the article said this



It is unclear from that statement if the Pope is talking about a gay person that confesses that this is sin and repents of it and asks God to forgive them - or if he is speaking of someone living in sin.
Since priests are not even supposed to have relations with women - let alone other men - it is not clear that the Pope was spinning that one to anything other than "celibacy" as the only accepted standard for priests - since that is what they demand currently.

As for the "trusted aide" if that aide was celebate (supposedly) then the context may be that of an aide determined to remain celebate despite falling into sin.

I don't know enough about the case in question but clearly the press is trying to swing it as if this is an open door policy for homosexual priests.

in Christ,

Bob

"The pope said the message 'in the Catechism that while a gay person is to be accepted, acting out on homosexual acts is to be deplored: “under no circumstances can they be approved … Homosexual persons are called to chastity.” Francis, who cited the Catechism in his answers to reporters, said nothing to contradict this. Asked for his position on gay marriage, he answered: “You know perfectly the position of the Church.”

What is un-clear about that, Bob? I find it curious for someone who is a member of a church that runs abortion mill hospitals to be casting stones at another. The abomination of abortion performed thousands of times over and over in your hospitals is a stench in the Lord's nostrils. Why don't you SDA's worry about the witness that presents to the world?

 

[DHK]

"The pope said the message 'in the Catechism that while a gay person is to be accepted, acting out on homosexual acts is to be deplored: “under no circumstances can they be approved … Homosexual persons are called to chastity.” Francis, who cited the Catechism in his answers to reporters, said nothing to contradict this. Asked for his position on gay marriage, he answered: “You know perfectly the position of the Church.”

What is un-clear about that, Bob? I find it curious for someone who is a member of a church that runs abortion mill hospitals to be casting stones at another. The abomination of abortion performed thousands of times over and over in your hospitals is a stench in the Lord's nostrils. Why don't you SDA's worry about the witness that presents to the world?

A homosexual person is not living a chaste life.
A homosexual person is living a deviant lifestyle. That is why he is called a homosexual.
If a homosexual were living a chaste life he would not be a homosexual, would he? There is no such thing as a chaste homosexual.
He is either a pure and chaste person or he is a wicked person living in sin, the sin of homosexuality. You can't be both.

The RCC is trying to have its cake and eat it too.
A homosexual person can't be chaste. It is impossible.
Either he is a homosexual or not?
A homosexual is one who practices homosexual acts.
Will the Catholic Church please grow up!!

 

[DHK]

That is a lie, DHK. He never said anything about forgetting about their sin. If they act on their same-sex orientation then he said the Church condemns it. You are saying that people with same-sex orientation are automatically consigned to hell, even if they live a life of celibacy. Glad your not God!

Your teaching:
The gay person never commits acts of homosexuality.
The murderer has never murdered.
The thief has never stolen.
The adulterer has never committed adultery.
The fornicator has never been immoral.

The sinner has never sinned

This is great news Walter!
There are no more sinners. There is no more need of getting out the gospel. Both 1John 1:9 and the Great Commission have been rendered null and void, for 100% of the world are saints and not sinners.

The homosexual is no longer immoral and the sinner no longer sins.
This is your teaching. All are now saved then. Right?
Full and complete universalism.

 

[Walter]

A homosexual person is not living a chaste life.
A homosexual person is living a deviant lifestyle. That is why he is called a homosexual.
If a homosexual were living a chaste life he would not be a homosexual, would he? There is no such thing as a chaste homosexual.
He is either a pure and chaste person or he is a wicked person living in sin, the sin of homosexuality. You can't be both.

The RCC is trying to have its cake and eat it too.
A homosexual person can't be chaste. It is impossible.
Either he is a homosexual or not?
A homosexual is one who practices homosexual acts.
Will the Catholic Church please grow up!!

So homosexual orientation=homosexual activity according to DHK. Well, there are plenty of fundamentalists Christians who believe DHK is incorrect. I'm starting to see why this subject is taboo for Baptists Board discussion (although, DHK will raise it if he thinks it slams the Catholic Church). Check out what an esteemed professor of Theology at Talbot Seminary says about DHK's idea:

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/what-should-homosexual-christians-do


I agree with you that it’s no sin to have a homosexual orientation. That’s probably something you didn’t choose and aren’t responsible for. But you can choose and are responsible for how you act.


Most educated Fundamentalists Christians know that people with a homosexual orientation does not mean they have or are committing homosexual acts. I happen to know of a Baptist that has a homosexual orientation that has never had sex, ever! Has he committed the sin of homosexuality?