IF A Christian refuses sabbath as saturday, Do they forfeit salvation?

[BobRyan]

Thread Title: IF A Christian refuses sabbath as saturday, Do they forfeit salvation?

As per ellen white?

Ok - so now that is the context from the OP for this thread.

Then comes the Targus "bait and switch"

Hold on there...

Didn't bobryan claim just a couple of days ago to hold to sola scriptura...

And that he NEVER quotes the false prophet Ellen White on the baptistboard.

Why is this guy allowed to preach a false gospel on the baptistboard?

That bait-and-switch argument above is classic for "certain groups".

I am surprised you would choose to do it out in the open.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

If a person claimed he is a Christian but refused "Nourishment ministered ... in eating and drinking of Sabbaths' Feast of CHRIST BEING THE SUBSTANCE", how could he "grow with the growth of God" or not be "beguiled of (his) reward" which is to co-"TRIUMPH together with Christ in it": HIS RESURRECTION from the dead ---"in fullness of the Sabbath Day"?!

Let God, "not any man", be the Judge of it!

 

[TCassidy]

Hebrews tells us that Christ is our sabbath. To keep the weekly sabbath is to say you don't have Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

Hebrews tells us that Christ is our sabbath. To keep the weekly sabbath is to say you don't have Christ.

Tell that "story" to C.H. Spurgeon, and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" and D.L. Moody and R.C. Sproul and ...

They all claim the weekly Sabbath REMAINS as part of the moral law of God - though they "bend it" to point to what the Bible calls "week day 1" after the cross.

Notice that in Hebrews 4 the SAME Sabbath "remains" as was had in Ps 96 in David's text - and here you argue that the Bible is Christless???

1Cor 10:1-4 flatly contradicts your wild speculation where Paul says that they "All drank from that same spiritual ROCK (Petra) and that ROCK (Petra) was CHRIST".

So much for your christless scripture idea.

You argue that to keep the Word of God AS He gave it - instead of the traditions of man - is legalism.

In Mark 7:6-13 Christ argues against the point you are making - saying that to keep the traditions of man instead of the Commandment of God - is wrong.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[TCassidy]

Tell that "story" to C.H. Spurgeon, and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" and D.L. Moody and R.C. Sproul and ...

They all claim the weekly Sabbath REMAINS as part of the moral law of God - though they "bend it" to point to what the Bible calls "week day 1" after the cross.

Matters not what others say, all that matters is "what says the scripture?"

Notice that in Hebrews 4 the SAME Sabbath "remains" as was had in Ps 96 in David's text - and here you argue that the Bible is Christless???

It is very easy to see when you know you cannot respond intelligently. Why do you think you have to lie about what I said and what I believe? When you make the absolutely asinine accusation that I "argue that the Bible is Christless" is simply beyond belief. Shame on you!

1Cor 10:1-4 flatly contradicts your wild speculation where Paul says that they "All drank from that same spiritual ROCK (Petra) and that ROCK (Petra) was CHRIST".

So much for your christless scripture idea.

Repeating the same lie over and over again will not make it true.

You argue that to keep the Word of God AS He gave it - instead of the traditions of man - is legalism.

Another lie. Christ being our sabbath rest is not a "tradition of men." It is the word of God. The difference between us is that I accept it and you reject it in favor of the Satanically inspired "revelations" of a raving lunitic whose failed "prophecies" have proven her over and over again to be a false prophet.

In Mark 7:6-13 Christ argues against the point you are making - saying that to keep the traditions of man instead of the Commandment of God - is wrong.

Again you lie about what I said and what I believe. You accept the ravings of a satanic lunatic over the inspired word of God. Your choice. Your loss.

I deleted your last lie and will not repeat it.

 

[targus]

Ok - so now that is the context from the OP for this thread.

Then comes the Targus "bait and switch"

That bait-and-switch argument above is classic for "certain groups".

I am surprised you would choose to do it out in the open.

in Christ,

Bob

You seemed confused, bobryan.

You are not talking to only one person here. There are several people posting to each discussion.

I did not start this discussion - so no bait and switch on my part is possible.

I merely pointed out the fact that you only a few days before claimed that you NEVER quote the delusional false prophet Ellen White.

But obviously you do. :laugh:

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by TCassidy
Hebrews tells us that Christ is our sabbath. To keep the weekly sabbath is to say you don't have Christ.

Tell that "story" to C.H. Spurgeon, and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" and D.L. Moody and R.C. Sproul and ...

They all claim the weekly Sabbath REMAINS as part of the moral law of God - though they "bend it" to point to what the Bible calls "week day 1" after the cross.

Notice that in Hebrews 4 the SAME Sabbath "remains" as was had in Ps 96 in David's text - and here you argue that the Bible is Christless???

1Cor 10:1-4 flatly contradicts your wild speculation where Paul says that they "All drank from that same spiritual ROCK (Petra) and that ROCK (Petra) was CHRIST".

So much for your christless scripture idea.

You argue that to keep the Word of God AS He gave it - instead of the traditions of man - is legalism.

In Mark 7:6-13 Christ argues against the point you are making - saying that to keep the traditions of man instead of the Commandment of God - is wrong.

Matters not what others say, all that matters is "what says the scripture?"

So then - you are interested in scripture and they are not?

Very well then - scripture it is.

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND"

Gen 2:1-3 the seventh day Sabbath is made a holy day for mankind.

Ex 20:11 the Gen 2:3 facts "alone" establish the Sabbath.

Heb 4 "there REMAINS a Sabbath rest for the people of God"

Rev 14 the SABBATH commandment text is quoted in vs 7.

1Cor 7:19 "what MATTERS is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Rev 14:12 the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God"

1John 5:2-3 the saints KEEP the Commandments of God and do not call it a "burden".

Is 66:23 In the New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath" shall "ALL MANKIND come before ME to Worship"

Is 56 - the gentiles of Isaiah's day are commended for Keeping the Sabbath.

James 2 "he who is guilty of breaking one - is guilty of breaking all"

Mark 7:6-13 God says it is wrong to replace one of the commandments of God with the tradition of man.

It is very easy to see when you know you cannot respond intelligently. Why do you think you have to lie

It is unclear to me that you are doing all that well with your idea.

The bible does not appear to support your speculation at this point.

Christ being our sabbath rest is not a "tradition of men." It is the word of God.

Since you are now "quoting you" it is odd that you refer to your own statement as "Word of God" - did you intend to quote an actual Bible text?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[TCassidy]

You are just too dishonest for me to continue this.

You are part of an anti-Christian, Satanic, cult. You need to get out of your destructive cult, and get into a good Bible believing, Gospel preaching, Christ honoring church.

 

[BobRyan]

Since you are sticking with nothing more than name calling - and I am sticking with the Bible - we may not have much to talk about.

I will re-state my former post as follows -

Very well then - scripture it is.

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND"

Gen 2:1-3 the seventh day Sabbath is made a holy day for mankind.

Ex 20:11 the Gen 2:3 facts "alone" establish the Sabbath.

Heb 4 "there REMAINS a Sabbath rest for the people of God"

Rev 14 the SABBATH commandment text is quoted in vs 7.

1Cor 7:19 "what MATTERS is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Rev 14:12 the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God"

1John 5:2-3 the saints KEEP the Commandments of God and do not call it a "burden".

Is 66:23 In the New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath" shall "ALL MANKIND come before ME to Worship"

Is 56 - the gentiles of Isaiah's day are commended for Keeping the Sabbath.

James 2 "he who is guilty of breaking one - is guilty of breaking all"

Mark 7:6-13 God says it is wrong to replace one of the commandments of God with the tradition of man.

have a nice day.

=============================

"If a person cannot argue the issue he will usually try to argue the semantics. If he is too ignorant to argue the semantics he will usually try to argue personality."

"If you can't answer a man's argument all is not lost you can still call him vile names" Elbert Hubbard.

 

[Yeshua1]

Tell that "story" to C.H. Spurgeon, and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" and D.L. Moody and R.C. Sproul and ...

They all claim the weekly Sabbath REMAINS as part of the moral law of God - though they "bend it" to point to what the Bible calls "week day 1" after the cross.

Notice that in Hebrews 4 the SAME Sabbath "remains" as was had in Ps 96 in David's text - and here you argue that the Bible is Christless???

1Cor 10:1-4 flatly contradicts your wild speculation where Paul says that they "All drank from that same spiritual ROCK (Petra) and that ROCK (Petra) was CHRIST".

So much for your christless scripture idea.

You argue that to keep the Word of God AS He gave it - instead of the traditions of man - is legalism.

In Mark 7:6-13 Christ argues against the point you are making - saying that to keep the traditions of man instead of the Commandment of God - is wrong.

in Christ,

Bob

NONE of them hold to the Church being placed under jewish Sabbath day now, so you keep misquoting them!

Besides its what the BIBLE states, NOT any other source!

back to the OP BOB, if a real Christian refused to observe the sabbath as Ellen White defined it, are they forfeiting salvation?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Hebrews tells us that Christ is our sabbath. To keep the weekly sabbath is to say you don't have Christ.

ABSOLUTE UNTRUTH. Totally, not only in the letter or word, but in spirit and essence, ABSOLUTE UNTRUTH!

You QUOTE Hebrews where it <<tells us that Christ is our sabbath>> ... you quote it!

Now I will QUOTE Hebrews where its very words and letters and essence and spirit CONTRADICT AND REFUTE you and what you arrogate, that <<To keep the weekly sabbath is to say you don't have Christ.>>

Hebrews 4:
"8 If JESUS gave them Rest ['katapausis'] there THEREFORE ['ara'] remains / still applies / stays valid / is obligatory ['apoleipetai'] for the People-of-God THEIR-keeping-of-the-Sabbath-Day ['sabbatismos']."

I'll tell you what, to deny JESUS' REST the Essence and Fibre for or of the People of God's keeping of the weekly Sabbath -- which is "the day The Seventh Day GOD THUS CONCERNING BY THE SON DID SPEAK" --, is to say you don't have or don't need to have or don't want to have Christ.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Christ being our sabbath rest is not a "tradition of men." It is the word of God.

Show it to us.

DHK would tell you INTER ALIA, <<Christ is a person and not a day. He is living; a real person, not an inanimate day.
There remains therefore Christ. We rest in Him. All who come to him shall find rest.>> Here, http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2018050&posted=1#post2018050

Of course what DHK has MORE to say, is exactly "tradition of men".

I hope this was of some help for you, you being offended so easily.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

God only has The Sabbath Day; God has no 'Sabbatism'; only "The People of God" have THEIR "Sabbatismos"; "their keeping of their Sabbath Day remaining obligatory ... SINCE JESUS GAVE THEM REST".

Bob Ryan, I'm afraid I have to differ with you on this one!

The 'Sabbatismos apoleipetai tohi Laohi tou Theou' is no left-over of the Jews' feast-meal; it is the CHRISTIANS' "Sabbaths'-Feast-of-Christ-The-Substance".

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You are just too dishonest for me to continue this.

You are part of an anti-Christian, Satanic, cult. You need to get out of your destructive cult, and get into a good Bible believing, Gospel preaching, Christ honoring church.

Where is one to find it?!

 

[BobRyan]

Bob Ryan, I'm afraid I have to differ with you on this one!

The 'Sabbatismos apoleipetai tohi Laohi tou Theou' is no left-over of the Jews' feast-meal; it is the CHRISTIANS' "Sabbaths'-Feast-of-Christ-The-Substance".

I thought I read a post from you recently where you were at one time willing to admit to the Christ of the OT - the one that we find in 1Cor 10:1-4 ("they all drank from the same spiritual ROCK (Petra) and that ROCK was Christ")and the "one Gospel" of Heb 4:2 "preached to us just as them also", saved by grace through faith.

the ONE Gospel of Gal 1:6-11 where Christ is "the same yesterday today and tomorrow" Heb 13 and the "God who does not change" Mal 3 - was providing the same Sabbath to the saints of the OT as to the saints of the NT - within the salvation experience.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by TCassidy
Hebrews tells us that Christ is our sabbath. To keep the weekly sabbath is to say you don't have Christ.

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Tell that "story" to C.H. Spurgeon, and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" and D.L. Moody and R.C. Sproul and ...

They all claim the weekly Sabbath REMAINS as part of the moral law of God - though they "bend it" to point to what the Bible calls "week day 1" after the cross.

Notice that in Hebrews 4 the SAME Sabbath "remains" as was had in Ps 96 in David's text - and here you argue that the Bible is Christless???

NONE of them hold to the Church being placed under jewish Sabbath day now, so you keep misquoting them!

The game you are playing was debunked long ago on this section of the board.

And we all know it by now.

Besides its what the BIBLE states, NOT any other source!

The very source you ignored in your post above - which you made right after my post of these scriptures.

I will re-state my former post as follows -

Very well then - scripture it is.

Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND"

Gen 2:1-3 the seventh day Sabbath is made a holy day for mankind.

Ex 20:11 the Gen 2:3 facts "alone" establish the Sabbath.

Heb 4 "there REMAINS a Sabbath rest for the people of God"

Rev 14 the SABBATH commandment text is quoted in vs 7.

1Cor 7:19 "what MATTERS is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Rev 14:12 the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God"

1John 5:2-3 the saints KEEP the Commandments of God and do not call it a "burden".

Is 66:23 In the New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath" shall "ALL MANKIND come before ME to Worship"

Is 56 - the gentiles of Isaiah's day are commended for Keeping the Sabbath.

James 2 "he who is guilty of breaking one - is guilty of breaking all"

Mark 7:6-13 God says it is wrong to replace one of the commandments of God with the tradition of man.

have a nice day.
.

Something we can all see who read this thread. I think you know this as well as I do.

back to the OP BOB, if a real Christian refused to observe the sabbath as Ellen White defined it, are they forfeiting salvation?

If they refuse to observe it the way that the Bible says it was made (as even the sources I quote ALSO admit that it was MADE as the 7th day Sabbath "the last day of the WEEK" the SAME DAY kept "from Creation to the resurrection" according to those sources and to Christ in Mark 2:27) - then you have James 4:17.

As already stated several times on this thread.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[The Biblicist]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Tell that "story" to C.H. Spurgeon, and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" and D.L. Moody and R.C. Sproul and ...

They all claim the weekly Sabbath REMAINS as part of the moral law of God - though they "bend it" to point to what the Bible calls "week day 1" after the cross.

They properly observed and interpreted the NEW COVENANT Messianic types (Lev. 23-25), NEW COVENANT Messianic Prophecies (Psa. 118:20-24), NEW COVENANT Messianic teachings through Christ (Mk. 16:2,9) and His apostles (Jn 20; Acts 2:1; 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2; Rev. 1:10) that a great day commemorating a greater NEW COVENANT work was established by God to be commemorated (Psa. 118:20-24; Acts 4:10-11; Heb. 4:9-10). They saw clearly that the Old Testament Sabbath was the sign of the OLD Covenant whereas the first day of the week is the sign of the NEW Covenant.

Notice that in Hebrews 4 the SAME Sabbath "remains" as was had in Ps 96 in David's text - and here you argue that the Bible is Christless???

Yes, same Sabbath but not same day for observering the Sabbath (Heb. 4:10) but a greater and better day because of a greater and better work that brings in a greater and better creation.

As far as "keeping the commandments" can you name a commandment you do not violate? Remember, if you violate just ONE POINT in the Law you violate the Sabbath as well as to violate ONE POINT is to violate EVERY POINT!

 

[Yeshua1]

They properly observed and interpreted the NEW COVENANT Messianic types (Lev. 23-25), NEW COVENANT Messianic Prophecies (Psa. 118:20-24), NEW COVENANT Messianic teachings through Christ (Mk. 16:2,9) and His apostles (Jn 20; Acts 2:1; 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2; Rev. 1:10) that a great day commemorating a greater NEW COVENANT work was established by God to be commemorated (Psa. 118:20-24; Acts 4:10-11; Heb. 4:9-10). They saw clearly that the Old Testament Sabbath was the sign of the OLD Covenant whereas the first day of the week is the sign of the NEW Covenant.






Yes, same Sabbath but not same day for observering the Sabbath (Heb. 4:10) but a greater and better day because of a greater and better work that brings in a greater and better creation.

As far as "keeping the commandments" can you name a commandment you do not violate? Remember, if you violate just ONE POINT in the Law you violate the Sabbath as well as to violate ONE POINT is to violate EVERY POINT!

BOB loves to quote James, so what would the lord say to him about how imperfectly he keeps the sabbath?

 

[Yeshua1]

I thought I read a post from you recently where you were at one time willing to admit to the Christ of the OT - the one that we find in 1Cor 10:1-4 ("they all drank from the same spiritual ROCK (Petra) and that ROCK was Christ")and the "one Gospel" of Heb 4:2 "preached to us just as them also", saved by grace through faith.

the ONE Gospel of Gal 1:6-11 where Christ is "the same yesterday today and tomorrow" Heb 13 and the "God who does not change" Mal 3 - was providing the same Sabbath to the saints of the OT as to the saints of the NT - within the salvation experience.

in Christ,

Bob

Per ellen white, are sinners saved by keeping the Sabbath and OT law, or by Grace alone/faith alone?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I thought I read a post from you recently where you were at one time willing to admit to the Christ of the OT - the one that we find in 1Cor 10:1-4 ("they all drank from the same spiritual ROCK (Petra) and that ROCK was Christ")and the "one Gospel" of Heb 4:2 "preached to us just as them also", saved by grace through faith.

the ONE Gospel of Gal 1:6-11 where Christ is "the same yesterday today and tomorrow" Heb 13 and the "God who does not change" Mal 3 - was providing the same Sabbath to the saints of the OT as to the saints of the NT - within the salvation experience.

in Christ,

Bob

No, my dear Bob Ryan; I am the one here who teaches the same Sabbath where you teach the same day but a different Sabbath.

I am the one here who preaches Jesus Christ on the Sabbath Day engaged in the last of all the works of God in Genesis chapters 2 and 3; you are the one who denies it, and preaches a Sabbath Day of MAN's works of righteousness.

And so I can go one and you can can go and read just about EVERY OF ALL my other posts, wherein I - to the best of my fallible but striving ability - try to elevate "CHRIST THE SUBSTANCE OF SABBATHS' FEAST" while you deny Christ the honour. ... which makes YOU the one who preaches another gospel and another sabbath day than the LORD our Saviour God's.

I pray God that your eyes might be opened, Bob Ryan.
I have long given up praying the heart of the SDA church might be opened to the Bible's real Sabbath Truth. But I am keeping on to pray that your eyes will one day see the wondrous beauty that God granted me to begin to see in my old age.

If God will, it will be more than satisfaction for my soul.