Featured How Do RC's Defend Things Like This?

I'm with you. I'm constantly learning new things about the faith handed down by the Apostles. I've read the bible many times and learning new things all the time. Right now I'm re-reading 1 and 2nd Corinthians for my devotions and still learning new things. It helps that I have an Archeologist friend who recently returned from a dig there to write book who also provides me some new insight.

 

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Ignorance of true salvation corrupts any other learning of God and service in the kingdom. The things of God are spiritually discerned. If one is spiritually dead in trespasses and sin, one cannot learn of Him. One must be born again from above. See the account of Jesus and Nicodemus in the front of John Chapter 3. Nicodemus was a Master(teacher, rabbi) of Israel; yet he was not born again. He had no clue as to what Jesus meant.

Many today have no clue. The plan of salvation has not changed. Salvation is of The Lord. Jesus paid it all.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

For those who seem confused about this monstrance, albeit their confusion is reflected here as revulsion, it would be a good idea to click on the link provided by Baptist4life in Post No. 1 and read the explanation. It is an excellent account of the scriptural basis for showing Our Lady standing behind the arc. You may not agree with the implications of the scriptural references but you will have a better understanding of the artistic imagery.

 

There is a bizarre resemblance to Isis and Ra blended with symbols from the old testament regarding the ark of the covenant.

Where is the golden calf? These are the visual trappings of the Synogogue of Satan. Now what?

Real New Testament Churches do not have such idolatry.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

isn't mary in the RCC though on the mercy seat, as sheintervenes for sinners thru the "Holy Rosary", and that she intetercedes for them before God, as she is the "Mother of God" and co redemptix in salvation though?

 

Actually no, Mary is not on the mercy seat, either in this depiction of her or in Catholic theology.

Mary does intervene for sinners, just as we would pray for a loved one who has not come to Christ.

Mary is the Theokotos (Mother of God or, more literally "God bearer").

Mary is regarded in a metaphysical way as the co-redemptrix. This is a trite expression but it does a pretty good job of describing Mary's role:

It is true that in scripture the ark is portrayed as a type of Mary. I have a list of those scripture passages on another computer that I don't have access to right now. However, I would suggest you compare the phraseology in 2 Samuel 6:9-16 with that in Luke 1:39-44. Also note the relationship of Revelation 11:19 to Revelation 12:1.

 

I have no idea what "sheintervenes" means. Unless, you mean two words one being "she" and the other "intervenes". Well, the Apostle Paul instructs us in 1 Timothy 2:1 to intervene for other people in prayer

and the book of Revelation reveals that in heaven

and Rev 8:3-4 says

all seems to indicate that not only do we intercede for each other hear on earth but those in heaven also intercede for us. So why wouldn't Mary pray to God for us? Or Paul or Peter or John or Matthew etc...?

 

jesus is the ONLY mediator between God and man, he is the High priest, NOT mary nor the Apostles, as ALL they do is worship and praise before His throne!

i am JUST as spiritual as mary and the Apsotles were, as ALL are saved same way, by same Grace, and are ALL priests to God!

To have any prayetrs offerred to mary, any "hail mary" is blashemous, and NOT per God!

 

Ok let me get this straight. By your statement you are saying the bible is lying when it says:

So, since Jesus is the only mediator and our high priest, according to you, we are forbidden to do what Paul instructs Timothy to instruct his church? If you have mediated and intervened for anyone in prayer you have sinned against God. And According to you throw out the book of Timothy because it is teaching us to sin when it request that we intervene for anyone in prayer. Wow, really! I think I have more respects for the scriptures than you do if this is what you believe.

Wait a minute didn't you just say?

Yet you claim we are all priest? You are contradicting yourself. However, I agree with you on these specific points 1) We are all saved in the same way. and 2) all Christians are priest to God. I can't speak to your spirituality since I really don't know you but you may or may not be as Spiritual as Mary and the Apostles however, I doubt it since you believe only Jesus can intercede for other people when the scriptures clearly teaches us different.

What's a prayters? Do you mean prayers? And your contention is saying Hail Mary is Blasphemous well that means that the Angel Gabriel sinned when the scripture reports

Did God throw Gabriel out of heaven with the devil when this happened? I mean he was Blasphemous! How dare he say that! Maybe Mary's cousin Elizabeth Blasphemed when she said

But how could Elizabeth have Blasphemed if she was filled with the Holy Spirit? Yet you claim she did! Why didn't God kill her on the spot after all God can't abide sin and she sinned while filled with the Holy Spirit? I think for you a bible study is recommended. Also can you show me the scripture that says

When in fact I've shown you scripture that shows they present the payers like incense before God. And I'm certain there are other things that people do in heaven. Here are some of the things other than worshiping God that people are doing in Heaven

Looks like these are sitting on thrones wearing golden crowns.

Looks like this Elder is having a discussion with John (who hasn't died as yet but was translated to heaven in his vision)

Here they are holding the prayers of the saints

here there are men crying out to God for justice.

Here they are told to rest. Clearly there is a lot of worshiping in heaven but according to scripture that isn't all they do.

 

:applause::applause:

 

Difference between prayers that we make to God on behalf of others while her on earth, and mary and the Apostles doing that when in Heaven!

NO verses support the catholic notion that then can intervene and intercede between us and God, as Jesus Himself does all that in heaven!

ONLY role Mary has was to bear the Son of God, as she did not bear all the trinity in her!

she was a sinner like me and you, Jesus had to die for her sins, and she is doing same as all departed, worshipping and serving the Lord God!

the ONLY part of salvation she had was to bear jesus, period, and has no ongoing business!

 

So, now your argument is location determines whether one prays or not? Ie. If I pray for you here in the US I'm considered to be praying for you but if I pray for you in England I'm acting like God? Is that really your contention? It is clear from the scriptures that people pray for people in heaven. So whether you are on earth or in heaven you still have the ability to pray for others.

Do you really know what you are saying? Catholics believe People can and do intercede for other people all the time and I presented you scripture where Paul instructs us to intercede for people. Clear as day. If you pray for someone on their behalf you intercede for that person. I think you are confused by two different things there is Christ's role which only he can fulfill at the right hand of God. But that is different than the role you and I play when we make requests and beseech God on behalf of others.

No one said she gave Birth to the entire personage of the Trinity! You made that up. Certainly the Catholics do not believe that. Catholics believe that Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ who is God. They don't say she gave birth to the Father or the Holy Spirit. However, Jesus whom she did give birth to is homoosious with the Father and the Holy Spirit. I think that comprehension is a bit beyond you by the way you make up stuff. Also no one ever has just one role. All humans are called to relationship with God which is eternal. God didn't just discard Mary after giving birth to Jesus as you seem to claim but maintained that relationship with her which includes her praying to God. However, it is important to note the Jesus was as much God as he was at his incarnation. To say he was less than God at his incarnation is Heresy.

Mary certainly needed salvation equally as you or I. And Mary certainly worships the Lord in Heaven. But you still haven't shown me the scripture verse which says all that the saints in heaven do is worship. I've shown you verses where saints are doing other things than worshiping God in heaven. I think you are mistaken if you believe all heaven is; is one big eternal tent revival. Though there is a lot of worship going on in heaven that doesn't exclude other activities people may do in heaven.

Therefore your model of God is that he impregnated Mary by the Holy Spirit and once she gave birth, God discarded her. That type of thinking can lead to all sorts of mistreatment of women. However, the scriptures are clear on this point. Mary not only gave birth to Jesus and was done. Nope go back to your bible. Mary raised Jesus as well. She changed his diapers, trained him up and he obeyed her.

And still more! Did you not read the scriptures that Mary asked Jesus to help at the Wedding at Cana where Jesus turned water to wine which scriptures say

Or did you not read in scriptures where Mary followed Jesus in his ministry that she was present at the crucifixion where the prophet foresaw her suffering watching her son die?

or How Mary was at the upper room during Pentecost when the Holy Spirit settled on the disciples?

So Mary was involved in Jesus ministry. So we see from scripture of all the people who had a personal relationship with Jesus and was with him throughout his ministry, death, and resurrection and continued among the disciples of Jesus Christ after his ascension it was Mary. Who more than all the other had the closest relationship to Jesus and new him best.

 

mary has the SAME relationship to Jesus as I do now, as one who has Him as her Saviour and Lord? She is NOT praying for persons here from heaven, not interceding for them before throne of God, and she has NO closer realtionship to Jesus then His Apsotles, or me !

She was a great lady, but NOT exaulted as the church of Rome sees her as being!

And to pray and chant the Rosery to her is blasphemy! As ONLY Jesus can interecede on our behalf!

 

1. Mary is dead; dead people don't pray.
2. Mary is dead; living people don't pray to the dead.
This is condemned in the Bible under the name of necromancy.
It is practiced in eastern religions where people pray to their ancestors who have died and set out food for them at night so that they will be satisfied and protect their houses. No different than the RCC.

 

Well........she was His earthly mother, is to be expected don't you think?

 

Praying to the dead - adoration of the dead - it is a form of worship.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Since you belong to a cult, why would anyone believe a thing you post. When you come to the conclusion that salvation is of the Lord by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and nothing else, post again.

 

Perhaps you are trying to improve your gift of name-calling -- or maybe you think that the shrinking Baptist numbers over time would be helped to shrink faster if you could just drive more people away.

Either way - I find your logic illusive. Do you have an explanation for it? Is there "a point" to coming to this "other denominations" section of the board and doing what you do?

There was a time when the name-calling all-the-time practices of "some" had not been effective enough at slowing the growth of Baptist denominations such as the Southern Baptists to the point of shrinking. I think they were at one time around 20 Million - but now at 16 million the result is that the Seventh-day Adventist are now larger than the Southern Baptists and the Seventh-day Baptist combined - simply by staying focused on Bible study and not dedicated to the "evangelism through name-calling" practices of some that you find around here every now and then.

I still hold to the hope that that are more objective unbiased faithful bible students among the Baptist here - than you seem to be willing to admit to.

in Christ,

Bob

 

In this forum Bob has just as much right as you do to post.

 

Isaiah 8:19-20 comes to mind.

in Christ,

Bob