Featured Giving by the Father - Jn. 6:37-65

Do Calvinists even read the Bible? Because if you did, you would know what I said is accurate.

Try turning to Proverbs. That will be about in the middle of your Bible when you find it.

Turn to chapter 1. Now read.

Pro 1:20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,
22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

Read especially the verses I have bolded. God says he has called, but these simple and foolish persons refused. He stretched out his hands to them, but none of them regarded. They would not listen to his counsel or his reproofs, for these foolish persons hated knowledge and did not CHOOSE the fear of the Lord. The word CHOOSE shows that they could have listened if they had wanted to, they were not unable.

These persons turned away from God, and that is what will slay them, and destroy them.

Now, you have probably never read this scripture before, because it refutes Calvinism. But yes, God ATTEMPTS to teach men and save them, but some refuse to listen. These will be destroyed.

But not all men are like this, read vs. 33. Those men who listen and learn from God shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

 

As anyone can see, the Calvinist totally rewrites the Bible to pour his man-made doctrine into scripture.

According to the Calvinist, draw means give.

According to the Calvinist, draw mean taught.

According to the Calvinist, come to Me means come to know.

Just read your bibles folks, and the following is what you find:

1) To be given by the Father to Christ for salvation is to be set apart spiritually in Christ, thus to come to Jesus refers to this transfer from the realm of darkness to the kingdom of God.

2) Being given transfers the person into Christ, thus all given for salvation do come to and arrive in Christ. Therefore if not given by God, no one is transferred into Christ, thus no one comes to and arrives in Christ unless given.

3) Next the Calvinist contrasts being drawn (attracted by the gospel) with being given (God putting someone spiritually in Christ.) Two entirely different things.

 

No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me, draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. (John 6:44 NASB95)

The Calvinist applies mistakenly the phrase "and I will raise him up on the last day" to the one drawn. However the conditional applies to the one drawn, i.e. unless the Father draws him, no one can come to Me.

Thus 100% of those that come to Me were (a) drawn by the Father, and (b) will be raised up on the last day. But the verse does not say 100% of those drawn come to Me and will be raised up on the last day.

Lets talk baseball. No one can make the team unless they try-out, and they will get their name stitched on their uniform. Does everyone that tries out make the team? Nope. Does everyone that tries out get their name stitched on their uniform? Nope.

It is really pretty simple.

 

It is a shame to use a verse that is calling anyone to listen and learn to have life. To become the new creation chosen before the foundation of the world. There is no one who is the new creation who will come to Christ if they don't listen and learn.

Those who walk away from His word will never be changed.

Jesus and the Father is one. His word is not His own, but the Fathers. Jesus word is Spirit and life we are missing and no one has without His word. We are all under the same curse, not one is different from the other, except the one who listens and learns will be changed into the new creation. We listen and learn from Jesus because He and the Father is one we will come to have life and find rest for our souls.

We all are dead everyone one of us we are no different, we all are all under the same curse.

When His word wakes us up, because death is being asleep. What is inside us all is eternal. We listen and learn. Eat His flesh, drink His blood for our life. We must eat and drink to be alive physically so we have to Spiritually and Jesus Christ life He lived and the words He spoke is Spiritual food.

John 6:53
Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Scripture that is used to draw us to Christ men use for their own agenda.

 

I would bet most Calvinists would understand the difference between being drawn and being given, it is just a rare few like Biblicist who cannot think outside his presuppositions that cannot see this.

You could tell him a thousand times and it will just go in one ear and out the other. He thinks he can't be wrong.

 

Take heed of your fellow zealot, the Arminian Inspector General, who is both Logician and Church Historian. According to his principles of logic your propositional truth, "100% of those that come to me were (a) drawn by the Father, and (b) will be raised up on the last day" is 'illogical.' I used that same proposition in my post # 13. By so doing I heard the crackling embers of his Inquisitional fires igniting.

You said, "But the verse does not say 100% of those drawn come to Me and will be raised up on the last day."

That is correct!

Satan draws many into churches worldwide. The Bible calls these 'tares sown among the wheat.' They will be burned with everlasting fire.

However, those drawn by the Father will come to Christ necessarily and necessarily be raised glorified in the Resurrection.

Re: "Let's talk baseball." No. Let's talk Bible. Baseball is of works. Salvation is all of grace.

Please do not repeat the errors of Winman who insists on using human analogies which do nothing but bring the Most High God down to sinful man's level.

 

These Scriptures teach exactly what we Calvinists have been saying all along. Unless the Father infallibly and necessarily draws sinners to Christ (i.e., the Elect chosen before the foundation of the world), they will remain obstinate and hateful, choosing instead a false god/gods of their vain imaginations.

Please note this verse: "Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you."

By this we learn that the Lord will save a remnant of Jews. Their salvation is attributed 100% to God's gracious mercy. It is He who will infallibly give them the Holy Spirit needed for them to know, understand, believe and obey His eternal truths.

Furthermore, it must be disconcerting to discover that your 'all-loving' God laughs at men's calamity and refuses to help when they call upon Him.

Would that be your behavior with your children?

 

It is obvious this is one of your favorite verses. Please give your interpretation.

I eagerly await your response as soon as your sacred sabbath concludes.

PS Are you allowed to use electricity and drive motor vehicles during your sabbath rest?

 

Baloney, these verses do not say any such thing. There is not one word that says they are UNABLE to repent.

Actually, these verses absolutely refute Calvinism, because they show that man has the ability to turn or repent BEFORE he is regenerated, and that AFTER he turns or repents God gives him the Holy Spirit and regenerates him.

Wow, just wow. Some of you Calvinists seem delighted that God (in your view) is cruel and enjoys destroying men for being the very thing he cursed them to be, sinners.

I agree God will laugh at the calamity of evil men, but these are men that God sincerely called to salvation, men that Jesus died for, but these men hated God and rejected him. These men were not born doomed to destruction as Calvinism teaches, they could have chosen the fear of God and been saved.

It makes sense that if a man believes God is cruel and cold-hearted, that is what the man himself shall be. What kind of person would mock God for being "all loving"??

 

This is correct, Jesus said all that the Father gives him shall come to him.

They certainly were chosen before the foundation of the world, but I am not familiar with scripture that says they were given before the foundation of the world. Perhaps you can show that scripture?

It simply says "all that the Father giveth me shall come to me". It does not say that coming is conditioned upon being given as you say, nor does it say being given is conditioned upon coming to Christ, it simply says all that the Father gives Jesus shall come to him. I do not add to what it says.

I agree that it is the Father's will that none given should perish.

But you are wrong about men's will not being involved, Jesus said it was his Father's will that all who see the Son and believe on him should not perish.

Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Yes, it is God the Father's will that none he gives to Jesus should perish, and it is Jesus's will to carry out the will of his Father. But it is also the will of the Father that those which BELIEVE on Jesus should have everlasting life and that Jesus should raise them up on the last day. So the will of man is involved as well.

Again, please show that these persons were GIVEN before the foundation of the world, I am not familiar with that scripture.

Yes, all given who come to Jesus were drawn. But this does not say that all drawn shall come. You just can't seem to grasp this.

All fish that were caught were drawn in on a fishing line, but not all fish drawn in on a fishing line were caught. Some fish fought and resisted and jumped off the line.

Why can't you understand such a simple analogy? I actually showed you a video of a fish being pulled into a boat that fought and resisted, jumped off the line and out of the boat. This is perfectly normal.

Yes, the unregenerated man is ignorant. That is why God must teach the man. When men hear the gospel they are instructed that they are sinners, and that the wages of sin is death. They are instructed that Jesus died for their sins and rose from the dead, and that if they will trust him he will save them. Those men who listen and learn from the Father are now enabled by knowledge to trust Jesus and be saved.

In Romans 10:14 Paul asks how any man can believe in Jesus unless he has HEARD of him. He does not imply any other cause of inability except ignorance. Paul implies that all that is necessary for a man to be saved is that a preacher needs to come and preach the gospel to them. Once a man has heard the gospel and been taught, he is now able to place his trust in Jesus.

The scriptures NEVER say a man has to be regenerated to have the ability to believe. You cannot produce a single verse of scripture to support this. And that is important, if your view is correct, there should be scripture to support it. There is NONE.

No, we read verses 44-45 literally for what they actually say. It is you that is adding to the word of God.

Drawn and taught are not the same thing. You can say this a thousand times, and you will be wrong a thousand times.

All men are drawn, but not all are taught. Some men refuse to listen when God calls them. Read Proverbs chapter 1;

Pro 1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

Did God draw these men? YES, he called them, he stretched out his hands to them, he literally begged them to come to him. That is drawing.

Was God able to teach them? NO, because they refused to listen to God, they set at nought all his counsel, and would not listen to his reproofs.

It is PLAIN AS DAY, but you refuse to see it. Drawing and being taught are not the same things whatsoever.

No, John 12:32 says that if Jesus be lifted up, he will draw all men to him. But not all who are drawn listen or learn, and therefore not all come.

As for those given, I believe it refers to those God foreknew would believe in time. I believe God in his foreknowledge could foresee who would believe in time, and these are the persons he gives to Jesus. Jesus said "my sheep hear me", so this is what distinguishes Jesus's sheep, they LISTEN to him.

I believe God the Father gives those he foreknew would believe on Jesus. These are persons like Nathanael who believed the scriptures and looked for the promised Messiah. Jesus saw him before he actually came to Jesus and believed.

No, not all drawn learn or come to Jesus.

Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

You need to read this verse over and over again until you understand it. Not everyone who is drawn comes.

 

"Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you."

Have you never read, "Turn thou us unto thee, O Lord, and we shall be turned"?

Repentance is the gift of God to the Elect. "if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth."

Instead you and all Arminians view repentance and faith your gifts to God.

How humble of you.

In summary: the verse in question commands repentance which the Lord will grant by pouring His Spirit unto [regenerating] His Elect.

How does it make you feel.....that on the one hand (as you say) God loves all men, but on the other hand (as you admit) laughs at their calamity?

I asked, Is this how you would treat your own children? You refused to respond.

The Lord indeed proclaimed the true way of salvation. However, the external general call of the Gospel saves no man. The proof lies in the fact that men preferred Jesus dead than alive.

Jesus died solely for those given Him by the Father. Have you not read:

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

Are you now teaching those men at whom God is laughing are those same ones He has given Christ as their Savior? Are these the Elect whom Christ has not/will not lose?

But your teaching, when examined beneath its sugar coated surface, is no different than the Bible truths which Calvinists teach.

You teach that God knows who will believe through foreknowledge.

By the same means God knows who will not believe.

Though God, who is all-powerful and all-wise, could have changed the outcome of those He foreknew would be damned due to unbelief (by using an infinite array of tools at His disposal) He chose not to.

What chance, pray tell, do the reprobate have in changing the foreknowledge of God?

And what, pray tell, is the purpose of God in bringing those unbelievers into the world whom God foreknew would never repent?

I'll tell you what cruel is.

Cruel is the Father who sends His Son to die a horrific death which does not accomplish the purpose for which He was sent.

Cold-hearted is the Father who does not believe the shed blood of His Son actually saves those for whom Christ died.

Monstrous is the Father who has so little respect for the power of His Son's blood that He posits the ultimate reason for salvation in man's decision and not the blood shed for many Elect.

It is you, Winman, who portrays a cruel, coldhearted and monstrous God.