Featured Behold I STAND at the door and Knock Rev 3

Winman,

You can't possibly understand Revelation 3:20 without including both Revelation 3:19 and 3:21. I repeat:

 

Ryan you incorrectly respond to the above as follows:

You are chasing your tail to get Calvinism out of the above statement by me. I believe that could be called "circular reasoning"! Furthermore, I make no assumptions about Calvinism; I don't even make assumptions about the Scriptural Doctrine of Sovereign Grace. If you understand Scripture you don't need to make assumptions!

You should have included the following Scripture from Hebrews which further defines those whom God loves; but please read carefully, particularly verses 7 & 8!

 

I can read, I have read those verses, as well as what Jesus said to all the churches.

Nevertheless, in Rev 3:20 Jesus says "If ANY MAN hear my voice, and open the door, I will come into him"

Do you really think he is literally saying he is knocking on the door at the church at Laodicea?

No, he is now speaking to any man anywhere reading this scripture. I hear Jesus's voice through his word. He is telling me he is knocking at MY DOOR, which naturally implies he desires entrance. And Jesus has promised if I will but open the door he will come into me, and sup with me. This is speaking of an intimate relationship, it is speaking of being saved.

And then in verse 22 it is made even more certain that verse 20 applies to all men when Jesus says, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches". So, again I am told that this scripture applies to ME and everyone else reading this scripture.

In fact, the book of Revelation begins by telling us that anyone who hears the words of this book is blessed;

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

The entire book of Revelation is written to whosoever will read it and HEAR what it says.

You are reading it, but you are not HEARING it. Why? Because it refutes Calvinism/DoG. Calvinists do not like Revelation 3:20 because it shows man plays a part in his salvation, man must open the door of his heart and invite Jesus in.

Now, whether you like it or not, Jesus said that YOU have to open the door.

 

No He is not literally knocking on the door of the Church at Laodicea He has already ascended don't you know. You correctly say He is speaking to the churches and He is speaking to only the redeemed in those churches, not to lost people in general. That is exactly why you must interpret Verse 20 in the context of Verses 19 and 21.

 

If you are arguing that the world includes all mankind does all mankind go to Heaven or only those who perfectly keep the law and ordinances and live a sinless life as you seem to be arguing. Or are you really arguing that since no one is without sin none will be saved, except a few SDA, and God will condemn all those He loves to damnation. It is difficult to really know since you seem to be fixated on Romans 11!

You really should not ignore the following which I have posted on two occasions.

Note in particular Verses 7 and 8.

 

Amen....you got their number:smilewinkgrin:

 

See dear friend...this commentary is exactly why the bretheren need you here...to add context and clarity which is too few & far between these days.:thumbsup:

 

No, he is speaking to ANY MAN. That is the part you and others seem unable to grasp.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Jesus didn't say, Behold I stand at the door, and knock, if a redeemed member of this Laodicean church hears my voice, and opens the door, I will come in to him...

No, Jesus said if ANY MAN hears my voice, because he is speaking to ANY MAN now.

And in verse 22 when he says, He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches, he is also speaking to any man who will listen.

 

Winman repeats his "anyone" argument when it has been thoroughly repudiated as in my post above, which neither Winman, Bob or Hank have dared address.

Ridicule is their only weapon of defense. It will not matter how much evidence we place in front of these kind of persons as no amount of evidence will be sufficient because they will defend their errors no matter what. This is why it is a waste of time to discuss Bible with these kind of persons. They have no interest in truth but in merely defending their unbiblical dogmas at any cost. They are spiritually incapable of receiving truth.

 

Bob you and Winman both post Scripture showing that Jesus Christ is speaking to the Churches then ignore that fact! Strange! Very Strange!

 

No, we both agree that God is speaking to the churches, but that God is also speaking to every man that ever reads these scriptures.

What part of, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches" do you not understand? That is a very simple verse that I easily understood when I was a young boy. It is God telling me to listen to the things he is telling these churches. These messages are not just for these churches, but for me and all other men as well.

 

They don't care what they have to say to defend their preassumptions. They could care less about the IMMEDIATE context and how verse 19 is related to verse 20 and defines the bounardies of its application. They could care less that "any man" has contextual limitations. We cannot rationally debate with irrational individuals who make up their own rules of hermeneutics as they go along.

 

And you do not care that Jesus said, He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

What is so ironic is that you believe you are one of the privileged few that God has granted to have an ear to hear, yet you refuse to hear what Jesus said.

That would be funny if it were not so tragic.

 

You are so irrational that it does little good to even attempt to reason with you. Can't you see who is the addressee of this statement? It is not the lost world but the churches but that contextual fact is of no consequence to your methods of interpertation????? No, you just put in their "any one" you like regardless who the writer explictily says he is addressing. The problem that has been diagosed refers to the people who are being addressed not the world. Use just a tiny bit of common sense.

Neither do you even care that verse 19 cannot possibly fit the persons you choose to arbritraily READ INTO verse 20 when NOT ONE WORD in the epistle is addressed to the lost or the world. You READ IT INTO the text because YOU MUST to fit YOUR theology.

There is no hope to discuss scripture with such a mind that simply makes up their rules of hermeneutics and reads into a text whatever pleases them when in fact NOT ONE WORD is addressed in this epistle to the lost. You are willfully blind and love it so and that is tragic.

 

Oh, they will say that God has to give a man the ability to hear, and so this verse only means a few select men.

That is why I said Biblicist was ironic, he thinks he is one of these few select persons that has been given the ability to hear, and still he refuses to listen to what Jesus said.