Featured Intentional perversion of Christ's Words

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

In order to deny the doctrine of effectual grace clearly taught in this passage one must intentionally close their eyes and be spirtually deaf and blind.

1. GIVING precedes coming demanded by future tense "shall come"

2. ALL not Some given do come - effectually 1 out of 1 coming to Christ

3. NONE "of all" given lost - effectual 1 out of 1

4. The Son is being held responsible for making the will of the Father effectual in regard to "ALL" given. - vv. 38-39 - and the Son NEVER fails to carry out His Father's will -NEVER - effectual


64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

1. "believe not" IS EQUAL TO "no man can come unto me"
2. "given" IS EQUAL to "believe"

ONLY those who have eyes but cannot see and ears but cannot hear can fail to see that this text clearly defines "come unto me" as "believe" in Christ and the only reason for unbelief in Christ or failing to come to Christ is the ability to believe has not been "given" unto that person by the Father.

John 6:29 clearly states that the ability to believe in Christ is the work of God. This work is being given by the Father to the Son for that very purpose -The elective purpose of God. This work is being drawn by the Father to the Son, the sovereign effectual power of God not "given" to all - vv. 64-65

This is so clear, so obvious that Christ's words must be INTENTIONALLY perverted, distorted, and abused to deny it. For those readers who are OBJECTIVE and can read and accept plain English you know I am telling the truth. Those who deny this are spiritually blind and intentionally love it that way as they hate the truth.

 

Welcome to the forum.

Verse 40 is not presented as a question. Note the final phrase in verse 40 is simply a repitition of the final phrase in verse 39. Hence, the "every one" in verse 40 cannot be anyone OUTSIDE of the "of all" which were given to the Son in verses 37-39. Verse 40 simply individualizes and personalizes with regard to application what is generalized in verses 37-39 by the word "all."

Thus "every one" in verse 40 refers to no one outside the "of all" in verse 39 that have been given to come to Christ for the very purpose to be raised to eternal life (v. 39b).

However, your interpretation REVERSES the stated cause and consequence relationships between being given and coming and obtaining eternal life. Jesus makes being given the cause for both whereas you reverse this and make "any one" coming the cause of being given and eternal life.

First, election is "TO salvation" (2 Thes. 2:13) not BECAUSE OF savlation as your rationalization demands.

Second, the future tense "shall come" does in fact demand being given is a necessary condition to coming just as being given in John 17:2 with the further qualifying "as many as" demands that being given is the necessary condition for obtaining "eternal life."

Third, note the limitations or boundaries being put in place in John 6:37-40. NONE can come to the Son but those given or otherwise there is no rationale in giving them to the Son in the first place. All given are the all who come and "OF ALL" none are lost. The "any one" simply INDIVIDUALIZES the "of all" in verse 39 as both verse 39b and 40b refer only to those given and NONE OTHERS. Verses 37-39 scream out that being given is a NECESSARY CONDITION for coming just as John 17:2 screams out that being given is the NECESSARY CONDITION for obtaining eternal life. Grammatically the future tense "shall come" in verse 37 demands that being given is the necessary condition for coming just as it is the necessary condition in John 17:2 for obtaining eternal life both of which are combined in verse 40 as the consequence based upon the condition of first being given by the Father for that purpose ("will" - vv. 38-39).

 

John 6 occurs first in time and is the exposition of what it means to be drawn and John 6:64-65 proves that not "ALL" men without exception have been drawn. So your REVISIONIST interpretation of Jn 12:32 is false and contradictory to already established exposition and application of this doctrine in John 6.

Furthermore, it ignores the immediate context of John 12 as verse 32 is simply an expansion of John 12:19-31 in regard to NON-JEWS or the "Greeks" seeking Christ. The term "all" is no different and includes none others than the term "all" in the initial exposition by Christ on this in John 6:37-39 - the elect which John 12:32 demands includes NON-JEWS or "all" without distinction of race.

However, you do not care about proper exegesis or the truth but in simply acing like a parrot and repeating your nonsense over and over hoping someone will swallow this nonsense.

 

Not with some on this forum. There is no other suitable term to describe the way they deal with the scriptures over and over again regardless of the plain and unanswerable evidence placed before them that their methods and responses are simply not objective or honest.

 

John 6:38 demands that God's will of purpose has determined beforehand not only the scope of who are included in this "all" but the purpose for being given to Christ which is that NONE shall be lost.

Christ is given the responsibility by the Father to secure that ultimate purpose, which is impossible to secure by the Son for any who were not given to him for that ultimate purpose. Hence, being given is the necessary condition for coming to Christ because Christ is not entrusted by the Father to accomplish that ultimate purpose for any but those given to him by the Father. If you deny being given is the necessary condition for coming to Christ, then you deny that it is necessary for the Father to give anyone to Christ as "any one" could come to Christ whether they are given to him or not thus invalidating and making foolish the very need for the Father to give anyone to the Son.

However, coming to Christ is EFFECTUAL as ALL given do in fact come and "of all" given NONE are lost. There is no EFFECTUAL coming outside of this "all" who are given and therefore "any one" in verse 40 can only refer to those inside "of all" who were given. "any one" simply individualizes and personalizes what has been generalized in verses 37-39 and that is proven by several contextual facts, but most clearly by the same concluding remark found in verse 39 "of all" given which concludes verse 40 proving that being given to Christ is for the coming to Christ for eternal life as John 17:2 spells out in no uncertain terms.

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Being given is the NECESSARY CONDITION for Christ to give eternal life just as being given is the NECESSARY CONDITION for anyone coming to Christ for that ultimate purpose.

However, your interpretation reverses this cause and effect relationships and make coming to Christ the necessary condition for being given by the Father and the necessary condition for obtaining eternal life when Christ says the very reverse.

The truth is:

1. God's elective will of purpose determines who comes to Christ - vv. 37-40

2. God's power determines the how they come to Christ - vv. 40-45 - thus securing that "ALL" given are "ALL" that come so that "NONE" are lost - vv. 37-40.

3. God's elective will of purpose and power are not universally applied to anyone outside those given - vv. 64-65

Those in verse 64 did not believe/did not come because IT WAS NOT GIVEN TO THEM to come by the Father - v. 65. Hence, the "all" of John 12:32 is the "all" of John 6:37-39; 45a or those chosen by the Father to be given to the Son before the Son ever entered the world - Jn. 6:38/Eph. 1:4/2Thes. 2:13 and NONE ELSE.

 

Moreover, the "will" in verses 38-39 is the DETERMINED SOVERIGN WILL of God as God provides all the means to EFFECTUALLY secure the end for "ALL" who are the objects of His will of purpose -which is NONE shall be lost.

The Son entered the world (v. 38a) for the very purpose to EFFECTUALLY SECURE that end for a specific people given to him for that specific end. Christ did not say he came into the world to secure that end for anyone other than "all" the Father gave for that designated purpose.

Hence, "any one" that believes cannot possibly include any one outside those "given" by the Father to "COME to me" (believe in me) as Christ never said, "All that cometh to me SHALL the Father give to me" but that is exactly what Arminians force this text to say in order to justify their false doctrine of salvation.

 

Here is a prime example of one on this forum who intentionally and repetively chooses to ignore all evidences placed before him that his use of scripture violates context, common sense and rules of hermeneutics and no matter how often you point out grammatical, contextual, interpretative errors he willfully chooses to ignore all evidences and simply repeats error like a parrot. This is the characteristic trait of those who have been hardened in their resistance to light.