Featured The Fear of Calvinism in the SBC

and I see we have even more "cagey" calvinists.

 

JonC
hello JonC... Merry Christmas! Good and helpful post:thumbsup:

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Okay....thanks for clarifying- this group of people is what other cals refer to when speaking of cage stage.They for a time become consumed with the teaching itself,and as they try to take in an overabundance of truth in a short time. The wisdom and grace that come in time is sometimes not sought in prayer quite as eagerly.:love2:

I did not read your post correctly....this in and of itself is a good topic for discussion. Biblical Christians can do this. In fact biblical Christians can even learn much from error.

fair enough...I had a wrong take on your post. i do not think that t most cals think in those terms...[superior].
I believe it is that they have already held the other posisitions and zealously defended those ideas....study more....come to what many have already believed.It takes time, trial and error to gain experience to know How to readjust into mainstream evangelicalism.

If they jump right in, they can cause some harm even if they think they are being helpful.

You can kill a mosquito with a fly swatter...or a flamethrower....but it makes a difference to the house...not the mosquito.

:godisgood:

 

That is the result of inhaling too many diesel fumes....:laugh::laugh::wavey:

 

The thing is.....you see all cals this way.read Jonc's post as he begins to show differences as to how and why this can happen.

You say the same about Dr.WHITE.....if you feel that strong about it meet him face to face and discuss your differences. Email him...write him....do something ...but do not bear false witness as you are doing.

 

Hi JonC and Merry Christmas.

I see what you are saying above, and yes it becomes a stereotype meant to malign. The thing is that many simply do lack Bible devotion, the 'intellect' that comes from much study and meditation (Hebrews 5:11ff). So there is an element of truth to that stance of Calvinists who do see this going on and see why some are not capable of seeing the truths of Scripture beyond a few texts that they've learned through the years, and not advancing in their understanding further. Unfortunately many are fed on milk for too many years, and do not advance. I also want to note that one doctrine they loathe, misunderstand and/or fear, being that of election is the milk of the Word, not meat.

I won't ask for evidence of the damage done by alleged Calvinist zealots. I will comment that any pastor should ALREADY be capable of defending his position, and there should be no fear involved. 2 Timothy 1:7 is applicable. I must also add that I have not found any arguments against Calvinism stemming from anti-cals or arminians Biblically sound and they are typically readily dismantled with Scripture, context, handling the Word correctly.

The above is typical and stereotypical. I wish when persons did this they offer up real time examples rather than painting with a mop. The indictment that these cannot see 'multifaceted perspectives' (which are unnamed) to me is quite unfair and is unfounded. The DoG perspective has such a rounded and fairly comprehensive view of God, Scripture, man &c, so could you share which multifaceted perspectives they are missing in Scripture because they are allegedly in the said position you've stated? I'm just looking for some practical evidence to support your theory and perhaps we can hash that out.

I do see partly where you are coming from with these attempting to convert to Calvinism rather than Christ. Some hyper groups are in fact more concerned at doing so than evangelizing for obvious reasons, and this is one reason they've gotten/retained their name as hypers.

I've also taken note that you see Calvinist doctrine as the most Biblical, and that is true and good. I think this is why so many do, as you suggest, make noble attempt to win others to further truth in the Word of God. I believe some of this comes along for the reason that they themselves were not learning, seeing or hearing these truths, then they see them, and they feel they missed so much time being ignorant to these things, and see how very disappointed they were in their former theological understanding. The truths they uncover are refreshing, give liberty, and they wish to share this with others and see others given this same liberty.

I believe we shouldn't broad brush this Calvinist camp with such negativity. The Calvinists I know are the most gracious, God loving people I've ever met.

 

I knew it!!!!!!!

 

Do not tell anyone QF...I am keeping it a secret,lol.

 

Get the yellow properties and the rr"s...lol

 

And so you are an advocate of Fuller....which leads to full Arminism. So bluntly, you don't believe in Radical Depravity...nor do you understand Ephesians 2:8-9.

 

Flame throwers can be very useful in certain situations....:thumbs:

 

It still seems otherwise, and you are in fact still painting with a mop. I see little to nothing but denigration of the reformed in your words.

I have to be honest, I've not seen any of this in a church in real time, not once. This seems to exist only in the minds of some on BB (and other forums I'm sure) then after these make their accusations they run wild with it and spread it on nearly everything everywhere.

When a person has nearly nothing good to say about these believers, then it is nearly exclusively an extreme side that is being presented. That in itself makes it all suspect. This causes me to call many things into question, validity and alleged advocacy included.

 

JonC,

I appreciate your "kinder and gentler" approach to the theological discourse around here. I will suggest, as I suppose you are beginning to understand that there are some with which you cannot have any semblance of a reasonable conversation. They (he) will denigrate and criticize any position that stops at any infinitesimal distance short from precisely what is held sacred in his eyes.

 

Kinder and gentler .....in here? ROFL!

Come on Dave....you see that side of Winmans or Vans delivery...oh heck LOL.

I personally would perfer the direct and honest hateful aproach to this candy coating horse manure.

And I really like flame throwers!

 

Well, I am happy that you enjoy that sort of discourse. Nothing wrong with honest, hateful is another thing. Enjoy the roll in the manure, just remember to bathe after, otherwise you can be "smelt" a mile away. And though I will not share it, there is history.

 

I have said this before & will say it again......dissent, even conflict, are necessary. W/o them there is no understanding.

If Jon wishes to make a veiled attempt at attacking serious Calvinists & Old School Baptists...have at it....call us unbiblical and go so far as to say we believe in doctrine vs gospel. See that's a rock thrown & it does the same damage to Christian unity. Believe me though, we see through it though. And it wont go unnoticed.

 

Well, I don't read him "attacking" anyone, if he does, then he has done it in the most pleasant of manners. He uses decorum and the acknowledgement that he may not always be correct and certainly open to opposing views. That is a HUGE difference.

 

Having grown up and been schooled in the non-cal thinking, and actually believed that the Cal view(s) were Biblical error and dangerous, I needed to gather a systematic rebuttal of the Calvinistic thinking.

What I discovered was very, very weak support of other schemes and overwhelming Scriptural support for that of the Cal. views.

The volume of Scripture support was too consistent not to agree.