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It Is Not Possible To Know God By One's Own Furtherance.

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Stegley

New Member
No place in Scripture demonstrates a commonly available relationship with The Father or with Christ to consist of any knowledge or any experience beyond what God and Christ have chosen to reveal about themselves in Scripture. Since Scripture is both the complete revelation of The Father and Christ for this dispensation and is the Standard for Truth, anything beyond Scripture will tell us nothing more about The Father and Christ than what is in Scripture. Adam, Enoch, Abraham, Melchizadek, Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel, David, The Apostles, and other Prophets of Scripture may have indeed possessed far more knowledge of God than we do, but we can never think to actually be of the same or greater than their pedigree and appointment as they were before God.

We can only know about The Father and about Christ. If one thinks they do actually "know God" or "know Christ" then they should be easily able to clearly state what they know about The Father and about Christ beyond what is disclosed in Scripture.
 
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J

Jacob_Elliott

New Member
Stegley said:
No place in Scripture demonstrates a commonly available relationship with The Father or with Christ to consist of any knowledge or any experience beyond what God and Christ have chosen to reveal about themselves in Scripture. Since Scripture is both the complete revelation of The Father and Christ for this dispensation and is the Standard for Truth, anything beyond Scripture will tell us nothing more about The Father and Christ than what is in Scripture. Adam, Enoch, Abraham, Melchizadek, Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel, David, The Apostles, and other Prophets of Scripture may have indeed possessed far more knowledge of God than we do, but we can never think to actually be of the same or greater than their pedigree and appointment as they were before God.

We can only know about The Father and about Christ. If one thinks they do actually "know God" or "know Christ" then they should be easily able to clearly state what they know about The Father and about Christ beyond what is disclosed in Scripture.
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23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
I suppose the alternative for Christians or saved folk, would be Christ knowing us. God is very personal and intimate as He has revealed in His word. We are the bride of Christ, you can't get much more intimate than that. Being a Christian is about knowing Christ and growing your personal relationship with Him.
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Stegley

No place in Scripture demonstrates a commonly available relationship with The Father or with Christ to consist of any knowledge or any experience beyond what God and Christ have chosen to reveal about themselves in Scripture. Since Scripture is both the complete revelation of The Father and Christ for this dispensation and is the Standard for Truth, anything beyond Scripture will tell us nothing more about The Father and Christ than what is in Scripture. Adam, Enoch, Abraham, Melchizadek, Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel, David, The Apostles, and other Prophets of Scripture may have indeed possessed far more knowledge of God than we do, but we can never think to actually be of the same or greater than their pedigree and appointment as they were before God.

We can only know about The Father and about Christ. If one thinks they do actually "know God" or "know Christ" then they should be easily able to clearly state what they know about The Father and about Christ beyond what is disclosed in Scripture.
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[/QUOTE]
:thumbsup::thumbsup:Welcome to BB STEGLEY:thumbsup: It would seem as if God has protected us by keeping true knowledge in scripture alone.
The scripture is the greatest gift God has given to us:thumbsup:
 
J

Jacob_Elliott

New Member
Stegley said:
No place in Scripture demonstrates a commonly available relationship with The Father or with Christ to consist of any knowledge or any experience beyond what God and Christ have chosen to reveal about themselves in Scripture. Since Scripture is both the complete revelation of The Father and Christ for this dispensation and is the Standard for Truth, anything beyond Scripture will tell us nothing more about The Father and Christ than what is in Scripture. Adam, Enoch, Abraham, Melchizadek, Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel, David, The Apostles, and other Prophets of Scripture may have indeed possessed far more knowledge of God than we do, but we can never think to actually be of the same or greater than their pedigree and appointment as they were before God.

We can only know about The Father and about Christ. If one thinks they do actually "know God" or "know Christ" then they should be easily able to clearly state what they know about The Father and about Christ beyond what is disclosed in Scripture.
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Also, welcome!
 
S

Stegley

New Member
Jacob_Elliott said:
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
I suppose the alternative for Christians or saved folk, would be Christ knowing us. God is very personal and intimate as He has revealed in His word. We are the bride of Christ, you can't get much more intimate than that. Being a Christian is about knowing Christ and growing your personal relationship with Him.
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Tell us what you know of Christ other than what is clearly given in Scripture. Please remember speaking of "We" must be done correctly, and not uttered as just a rhetoric device.

Please also try to remember Jesus is not characterized or apprehended by using today's human convention and human notions. For instance, being a bride in Jewish culture at the time of Jesus had no similarity to being a bride in our modern times. Therefore, using a modern concept of "bride" has nothing to do with understanding The Church as His Bride.
 
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Stegley

New Member
Iconoclast said:
Stegley
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:thumbsup::thumbsup:Welcome to BB STEGLEY:thumbsup: It would seem as if God has protected us by keeping true knowledge in scripture alone.
The scripture is the greatest gift God has given to us:thumbsup:[/QUOTE]

Scripture is not the Greatest gift God has given us. Scropture does not say that about itself, but thanks for sharing this notion.
 
J

Jacob_Elliott

New Member
Stegley said:
Tell us what you know of Christ other than what is clearly given in Scripture. Please remember speaking of "We" must be done correctly, and not uttered as just a rhetoric device.

Please also try to remember Jesus is not characterized or apprehended by using today's human convention and human notions. For instance, being a bride in Jewish culture at the time of Jesus had no similarity to being a bride in our modern times. Therefore, using a modern concept of "bride" has nothing to do with understanding The Church as His Bride.
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A Jewish man was intimate with his wife. I know God through nature (psalm 19), through prayer, through my sanctification and his discipline, from His blessings. It's actually like how I know my wife, I walk with her, talk with her, spend time with her, and although God has not audibly spoken back I can feel him acting in my life, and continually feel closer to Him. There is a big difference in having head knowledge (knowing about God), and Knowing God( having an intimate personal relationship, which only the saved can enjoy). I'm sure it wasn't intentional but your posts felt a little arrogant, especially to Iconoclast, who is a living library with a wealth of knowledge, and one of the kindest most welcoming members on BB.
God bless!
 
S

Stegley

New Member
Jacob_Elliott said:
A Jewish man was intimate with his wife. I know God through nature (psalm 19), through prayer, through my sanctification and his discipline, from His blessings. It's actually like how I know my wife, I walk with her, talk with her, spend time with her, and although God has not audibly spoken back I can feel him acting in my life, and continually feel closer to Him. There is a big difference in having head knowledge (knowing about God), and Knowing God( having an intimate personal relationship, which only the saved can enjoy). I'm sure it wasn't intentional but your posts felt a little arrogant, especially to Iconoclast, who is a living library with a wealth of knowledge, and one of the kindest most welcoming members on BB.
God bless!
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What is there within your observation of Nature, within your marital intimacey, within your prayer, within your supposed sanctification, within your discipline from God, within your Divine blessing, and within your feelings about God that reveals more to you about God than what Scripture does?
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Scripture makes it clear that the greatest gift is not the written word but Jesus Himself the living word.


2Co 9:15 Thanks be to God for his inexpressible gift!
 
J

Jacob_Elliott

New Member
Stegley said:
What is there within your observation of Nature, within your marital intimacey, within your prayer, within your supposed sanctification, within your discipline from God, within your Divine blessing, and within your feelings about God that reveals more to you about God than what Scripture does?
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I wouldn't say that this relationship gives you more insight than what has been laid out in scripture ( I would never argue that) but rather reinforces what scripture teaches. Nature=God's glory, Marriage=again glory, love faithfulness, grace, intimacy, discipline=God's glory, love, intimacy, sanctification=Grace love mercy,glory

Admittedly I didn't read the OP close enough and was simply arguing that a personal relationship was possible.
 
S

Stegley

New Member
Revmitchell said:
Scripture makes it clear that the greatest gift is not the written word but Jesus Himself the living word.


2Co 9:15 Thanks be to God for his inexpressible gift!
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Scripture speaks not of any such "greatest gift." Can you find one for us to read?
 
S

Stegley

New Member
Jacob_Elliott said:
I wouldn't say that this relationship gives you more insight than what has been laid out in scripture ( I would never argue that) but rather reinforces what scripture teaches. Nature=God's glory, Marriage=again glory, love faithfulness, grace, intimacy, discipline=God's glory, love, intimacy, sanctification=Grace love mercy,glory

Admittedly I didn't read the OP close enough and was simply arguing that a personal relationship was possible.
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Then you do marvelously and joyfully understand that we can only know "about" God according to what is given in Scripture. A wise decision.
 
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Stegley

New Member
Jacob_Elliott said:
Before I block, no, one must have a personal growing relationship, a heart knowledge, or one is not saved.
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And, that is what Scripture almost says, demonstrating the statement of this thread that knowledge of The Father and of Christ cannot exceed what is given in Scripture about them.

BTW, there is no such thing as a "growing relationship" with The Father through Jesus. The relationship in its totality is in existence at spiritual rebirth.

Please block yourself, now. Emotions and consternation are not going to please The Father.
 
S

Stegley

New Member
Revmitchell said:
More heresy I see. I quoted it you requoted it.What religion teaches you such heresy?
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I did not see a Scripture which said anything about "God's greatest gift," quite similar to how there is no Scripture about having "a favorite verse," or about "claiming Scripture."
 
T

thisnumbersdisconnected

New Member
Stegley said:
Scripture speaks not of any such "greatest gift." Can you find one for us to read?
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Really? I'd think the passage he gave would be the proof that statement is wrong. Perhaps the context would help you.

2 Corinthians 9, NASB
10 Now He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness;
11 you will be enriched in everything for all liberality, which through us is producing thanksgiving to God.
12 For the ministry of this service is not only fully supplying the needs of the saints, but is also overflowing through many thanksgivings to God.
13 Because of the proof given by this ministry, they will glorify God for your obedience to your confession of the gospel of Christ and for the liberality of your contribution to them and to all,
14 while they also, by prayer on your behalf, yearn for you because of the surpassing grace of God in you.
15 Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!​
He could be talking about the gracious goodness of God through His provision, but most believe, as do I, that the "indescribable gift" is Christ Himself, of whom John Gill wrote regarding this passage:
" ... is to be sure "the unspeakable gift" of God; who, though his Son, his own Son, his only begotten Son, the Son of his love, his Son and heir, yet he gave him to be a covenant to the people, the head of his church, the Saviour of sinners, and to be a sacrifice in their room and stead: none can tell how great this gift is, which is so suitable and seasonable, so large and comprehensive, nor declare the love both of the Father and the Son, expressed in it."
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Or do you deny the truth of Scripture? And I would join RevMitchell in asking where you learned such heresy?
 
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I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Stegley said:
Welcome to BB STEGLEY:thumbsup: It would seem as if God has protected us by keeping true knowledge in scripture alone.
The scripture is the greatest gift God has given to us:thumbsup:
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Scripture is not the Greatest gift God has given us.
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I believe you are quite mistaken as God has chosen scripture to reveal all revealed truth to us.Jn 17:17

Without this gift, we have no true knowledge of God, His plan and purpose, and the true meaning of any created fact. We would not know our condidtion or the God given remedy. This is more than a notion my friend:laugh:
 
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