Featured The nature of Quickening

Rom. 11:32 ...I think this is the NIV...but I'm open to other translations.

CONSEQUENCES. PUNISHMENT.

A child might chose the act of disobedience, but the parent is the one who chooses and enforces the consequences.

So wrath doesn't exist? Hell is just absence of something? Total inability is not a real condition that men actually suffer with from birth? Is that what you are arguing because SOMEONE or SOMETHING had to decide that would be the result of disobedience and then they had to enact it. Someone has to send people to hell, it doesn't just magically happen.

Define natural and necessary. Then tell us who or what decided that they were natural and necessary consequences.

No, its like asking who designed the wrathful consequences of those who reject the light and walk in darkness.

 

So, the last time you sinned, why didn't you consciously resist sin in this manner?

Were you responsible? Meaning were you able to respond either way? Or were you bound to sin because God, for whatever reason, chose not to grant the necessary measure of grace needed for you to resist at that point in time?

 

You shift from talking about one particular choice to sin to a generalized 'living above sin,' and it is obvious why you make that shift. When specifically talking about the last time you sinned you cannot say why you didn't "confess your total impotence" or "consciously resist sin by confessing you have no ability to overcome sin." To do so would reveal the INCONSISTENCY of your system.

 

No, I've never argued that. I'm ONLY talking about the CONSEQUENCES of disobedience. You seem to think that the condition of total inability just couldn't have been helped by God, as if He was a victim of it as much as we were. Surely we can agree that God had a say in whether or not disobedience would result in the loss of response ability. Surely you can agree that God COULD HAVE, if he wanted to, prevented all men from being born totally unable to respond to His revelation? Surely you are not going to argue that was just beyond God's abilities.

 

But you still haven't told us WHY you didn't resist the temptation the last time you sinned. You are claiming its your fault, but not telling us WHY you didn't resist.

The last time you sinned, do you believe that God gave you all that was necessary for you to resist? Yes or no?

 

Quickened = made alive

Jn 5:21-24
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Eph 2:1-7
Chapter 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Passed from death unto life = quickened.

Rev 20:12-15
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:and another book was opened, which is the book of life:and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Here we have our "positional" quickening. Our names are passed from the books of the dead, unto the book of life.

 

Biblicist teaches one falsehood after another.

First, hell was prepared for the devil and his angels, not men.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Yes, those who reject Jesus shall be cast into hell and the lake of fire, but that is not why God prepared hell. It is God's intention that men be saved.

Next, Biblicist loves to prove that all men are so depraved they cannot respond to God. But the scriptures say man is made upright, and that man is made in the similitude of God.

Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Jam 3:9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

Biblicist fulfills this verse, speaking evil of men who are made after the similitude of God.

Next, Biblicist misinterprets Romans 7 and claims even Christians have no victory over sin, but are subject to the law of sin. But Paul says the Spirit has made us free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Not only CAN a Christian live a holy life, that is exactly what we are supposed to do.

Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

If you want to learn false doctrine, just listen to Biblicist.

 

So it is your view that God has never had any control over the inability of man's fallen nature to respond willingly to his revelation? Is that what you are telling us? God is able to irresistibly change man's nature and thus make them decide otherwise, but He is simply not able to enable them to make a decision of their own, right? God is a victim of the nature of sin, just as much as we are, right? He had no control over that? Is that your view?

 

Yeah, that's the problem, I'm the confused one.

 

And YOU are NEVER going to win a debate by lobbing the ball down the middle so your opponent can sock it out of the park. Why do you ask so many questions of your opponent? You really believe this guy is going to suddenly agree with you?

If you know something is wrong, SAY IT. Don't ask someone like Biblicist to admit his views are illogical, it ain't going to happen.

 

I'm not motivated by 'winning a debate.' I just enjoy the discussion. BTW, your method hasn't 'won' any either, as the only 'victory' in a forum like this one is in the eyes of beholder.

 

Oh, I agree, and I do not try to "win" debates for the object of winning, but because I believe I am correct on certain issues. I debate for what I believe to be the truth's sake.

Nevertheless, it is still a competition of ideas similar to a sport. And if you are going to persuade folks, you need to use winning technique. Constantly begging your opponent to agree with you is not one of them.

If you have scripture, use scripture to PROVE your view is correct. If your opponent doesn't agree, others who are fair minded will.

And I know for a fact that folks listen to me.

Look at Biblicist, or P4T, do they try to be a gentleman and get you to agree with them? NO, they run over you like a steam-roller.

I would suggest if you want to survive, you debate in like form. Try it for awhile, you might like it.

 

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." -George Bernard Shaw