Featured Why? Why?

Why is it that many on this forum resist so adamantly the Biblical teaching of man's responsibility? People hate to be held fully responsible for their actions. People will not have a just God to hold them accountable for their choices and actions through their entire lives. Part of the Adamic nature is to be your own God and thus not take responsibility for your own actions, so some blame their actions on God as if they had no choice in the matter. People of today are rising up in rebellion as they did when Christ was crucified crying, We will not have this man hold us accountable for our own choices and actions!

Two can play this fun game!

 

Faith comes first, grace is learned through faith.

Faith is made up of three things. Knowledge that comes from God. If you never heard the Gospel of your salvation you can't be saved. Then belief and trust in Christ that comes from us

Spurgeon does better than me.

"Most people have no idea what faith is so there comes their misunderstanding.
simplicity it is the more difficult to explain.
What is faith?*It is made up of three things—knowledge, belief, and trust.*Knowledge*comes first. "How shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?" I want to be informed of a fact before I can possibly believe it. "Faith cometh by hearing"; we must first hear, in order that we may know what is to be believed. "They that know thy name shall put their trust in thee." A measure of knowledge is essential to faith; hence the importance of getting knowledge. "Incline your ear, and come unto me; hear, and your soul shall live." Such was the word of the ancient prophet, and it is the word of the gospel still. Search the Scriptures and learn what the Holy Spirit teacheth concerning Christ and His salvation. Seek to know God: "For he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." May the Holy Spirit give you the spirit of knowledge, and of the fear of the Lord! Know the gospel: know what the good news is, how it talks of free forgiveness, and of change of heart, of adoption into the family of God, and of countless other blessings. Know especially Christ Jesus the Son of God, the Saviour of men, united to us by His human nature, and yet one with God; and thus able to act as Mediator between God and man, able to lay His hand upon both, and to be the connecting link between the sinner and the Judge of all the earth. Endeavour to know more and more of Christ Jesus. Endeavour especially to know the doctrine of the sacrifice of Christ; for the point upon which saving faith mainly fixes itself is this— "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them." Know that Jesus was "made a curse for us, as it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree." Drink deep of the doctrine of the substitutionary work of Christ; for therein lies the sweetest possible comfort to the guilty sons of men, since the Lord "made him to be sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." Faith begins with knowledge.
The mind goes on to*believe*that these things are true. The soul believes that God is, and that He hears the cries of sincere hearts; that the gospel is from God; that justification by faith is the grand truth which God hath revealed in these last days by His Spirit more clearly than before. Then the heart believes that Jesus is verily and in truth our God and Saviour, the Redeemer of men, the Prophet, Priest, and King of His people. All this is accepted as sure truth, not to be called in question. I pray that you may at once come to this. Get firmly to believe that "the blood of Jesus Christ, God's dear Son, cleanseth us from all sin"; that His sacrifice is complete and fully accepted of God on man's behalf, so that he that believeth on Jesus is not condemned. Believe these truths as you believe any other statements; for the difference between common faith and saving faith lies mainly in the subjects upon which it is exercised. Believe the witness of God just as you believe the testimony of your own father or friend. "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater."
So far you have made an advance toward faith; only one more ingredient is needed to complete it, which is*trust. Commit yourself to the merciful God; rest your hope on the gracious gospel; trust your soul on the dying and living Saviour; wash away your sins in the atoning blood; accept His perfect righteousness, and all is well. Trust is the lifeblood of faith; there is no saving faith without it. The Puritans were accustomed to explain faith by the word "recumbency." It meant leaning upon a thing. Lean with all your weight upon Christ. It would be a better illustration still if I said, fall at full length, and lie on the Rock of Ages. Cast yourself upon Jesus; rest in Him; commit yourself to Him. That done, you have exercised saving faith. Faith is not a blind thing; for faith begins with knowledge. It is not a speculative thing; for faith believes facts of which it is sure. It is not an unpractical, dreamy thing; for faith trusts, and stakes its destiny upon the truth of revelation. That is one way of describing what faith is.
Let me try again.*Faith is believing that Christ is what He is said to be, and that He will do what He has promised to do, and then to expect this of Him. The Scriptures speak of Jesus Christ as being God, God is human flesh; as being perfect in His character; as being made of a sin-offering on our behalf; as bearing our sins in His own body on the tree. The Scripture speaks of Him as having finished transgression, made an end of sin, and brought in everlasting righteousness. The sacred records further tell us that He "rose again from the dead," that He "ever liveth to make intercession for us," that He has gone up into the glory, and has taken possession of Heaven on the behalf of His people, and that He will shortly come again "to judge the world in righteousness, and his people with equity." We are most firmly to believe that it is even so; for this is the testimony of God the Father when He said, "This is my beloved Son; hear ye him." This also is testified by God the Holy Spirit; for the Spirit has borne witness to Christ, both in the inspired Word and by divers miracles, and by His working in the hearts of men. We are to believe this testimony to be true.
Faith also believes that Christ will do what He has promised; that since He has promised to cast out none that come to Him, it is certain that He will not cast*us*out if we come to Him. Faith believes that since Jesus said, "The water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everasting life, it must be true; and if*we*get this living Water from Christ it will abide in*us, and will well up within*us*in streams of holy life. Whatever Christ has promised to do He will do, and we must believe this, so as to look for pardon, justification, preservation, and eternal glory from His hands, according as He has promised them to believers in Him.
Then comes the next necessary step. Jesus is what He is said to be, Jesus will do what He says He will do; therefore we must each one*trust Him,saying, "He will be to me what He says He is, and He will do to me what He has promised to do; I leave myself in the hands of Him who is appointed to save, that He may save me. I rest upon His promise that He will do even as He has said." This is a saving faith, and he that hath it hath everlasting life. Whatever his dangers and difficulties, whatever his darkness and depression, whatever his infirmities and sins, he that believeth thus on Christ Jesus is not condemned, and shall never come into condemnation.
May that explanation be of some service! I trust it may be used by the Spirit of God to direct my reader into immediate peace. "Be not afraid; only believe." Trust, and be at rest.
My fear is lest the reader should rest content with understanding what is to be done, and yet never do it. Better the poorest real faith actually at work, than the best ideal of it left in the region of speculation. The great matter is to believe on the Lord Jesus*at once. Never mind distinctions and definitions. A hungry man eats though he does not understand the composition of his food, the anatomy of his mouth, or the process of digestion: he lives because he eats. Another far more clever person understands thoroughly the science of nutrition; but if he does not eat he will die, with all his knowledge. There are, no doubt, many at this hour in Hell who understood the doctrine of faith, but did not believe. On the other hand, not one who has trusted in the Lord Jesus has ever been cast out, though he may never have been able intelligently to define his faith. Oh dear reader, receive the Lord Jesus into your soul, and you shall live forever! "He that believeth in Him hath everlasting life."

 

Depends whether you are perceiving election as pre-election or not.

If pre-election I can see the widespread rejection of it as in the Jews thought they were specially pre-selected for election by pedigree. John dealt with that thought:

(Mat 3:9) And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

I see how that could could help your eschatology view but not your soteriological one. Those two views would seem in sharp contrast on this point.

:wavey:

 

When God gave the Old Covenant the people said, "all that the LORD has said we will do."

God found fault in them.

Therefore God made a new Covenant with the house of Israel.

Read it in Hebrews 8:10-12 and tell me what the people must say and or do.

They will not say or do or think anything for their election.

It will be applied to the elect in their due time.

It could be made when Jesus of Nazareth was obedient unto death even the death of the cross and God, his Father raised him from the dead.

 

Awww, good then maybe you caught the parallel I was attempting to highlight, because those of us who believe in the responsibility of man generally hold to the Sovereignty of God and Divine election as well.

It goes both ways. Posts like this only serve to stir the pot as they ignore the others actual perspective while pretending they deny something they don't... Thanks for pointing out the flaw! :thumbsup:

 

Which Clark?

How was Pink any more 'intellectually honest' than other Calvinists? How does a hyper-Cal like him appeal to your free will philosophy?

 

Good post salzer. The big "I" of synergism should be considered in this mix also. Any doctrine that teaches that it's man's choice, man's free will, man's personal decision that puts man in Christ Jesus is stealing glory from God.

 

Doing God's will is giving Him glory not doing His will not to believe in Him is not. Period war against man doing His will is not productive

John 6:40For my Fathers will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

 

I reiterate:

but God chose....God chose......did God choose.....that no flesh should glory before God. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus.... 1 Cor 1:27-30

Any doctrine that teaches that it's man's choice, man's free will, man's personal decision that puts man in Christ Jesus is stealing glory from God.

 

Hi Greektim, I am not interested in word games, if you want to define total depravity so as not to be refuted, have at it. However, if you adhere to the published definition, i.e. total spiritual inability to seek God or trust in Christ, then it is refuted.

Ask yourself this, you say some will to be saved, then add, to earn salvation. Why the addition? No one is saying we can earn salvation, so why throw it into the mix. But Romans 9:16 says we are spiritually able, in our natural men of flesh unregenerate, fallen condition to will and to work to be saved. But all of our willing and working does not earn salvation, for it does not depend on the man that wills.

Next, again, illogically, you say it must be God to overcome the will. If the will is willing and working to be saved, why say overcome the will. Why not say "fallen condition" where all our works of righteousness are as filthy rags.

No one is saying our faith merits salvation, it is just another filthy rag, worthless and without merit of any kind. What I am saying is the scripture teaches it is God who credits that filthy rag faith as righteousness, and based on that acceptance, God sets us apart in Christ.

No, you did not ask what I think Romans 9 is all about, you asked if I had presented my views on Romans 9, and I said yes.

 

So, God decrees for Arminians to steal some of His Glory? I wonder why He made that decision?

 

Can you cite a passage there Skan? I've not stated any such thing, maybe you can show me where the scriptures do?

 

I'm siting you...you think we steal God's glory and yet you (or those who typically hold to Calvinistic theology) believe that God has decreed whatsoever comes to pass. Thus, I was just wondering why you think God decreed for us to 'steal his glory?' Seems like he would have decreed a world where no one could steal it, if that is what He wanted, right?

 

I do not believe any non Cal will disagree with the verse it is just that free will thing. We need to come to point to know that we are saved because of the will of God. Freewill is ridiculous to me there is only His will and our will. We do have a free agency because we are responsible to get on His will on board with God.

 

You're like a broken record. For you to repeat this falsehood like a mantra grows wearisome. Predestination applies only to God calling out a people for His own possession.

More wearisome, ridiculous reasoning that doesn't EVEN apply to me.

The deduction to be made from the passage I cited is plain; if you think it was your choice that placed you in Christ Jesus you are claiming credit that's due only to God.

 

Awesome, I say again awesome!

 

I noticed the following when I used this verse in my post to you in the election thread.

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.


God not only elects us he also changes us from unbelief unto belief.

We are believers because we are elected to be so.

 

God chose from before the foundation that when the creatures He was to design with the abilities of sense, reason and intellect would chose to freely gain the knowledge of good of evil and evil, so they could be as God, that they would freely have another choice, repent, and to take of tree of life in Jesus Christ.

(Gen 3:22) And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and NOW, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


God gets all the glory for the work He did in providing His miraculously designed creatures this loving choice through the sacrifice of His Son to provide the Way. Too bad some doctrines still glorify the men who are too proud to admit to choosing to die to their will to be as God to make this choice freely.

Guess God loving influence wasn’t able, but glory, glory He provided the way for some to claim God had to do the choosing for them. I would think this is steeling His glory of the purpose He put this light into all the world because it has no real effect to get His creatures to respond of their own volition. But I’m sure the Calvinist will argue I’m mistaken…

Guess that disobedience of wanting to be as God is just too much for some of the proud to shake by responding through the attributes God originally designed man with, but if God desire for them to respond of His influences isn’t enough, He can always go back and recreate His creatures natures so they won’t Have any true choice in the matter. Glory, glory to God that He can fix His mistakes of His original design of creatures for to support the doctrines of inability to respond by the Calvinist. Glory!!

Sing the glory of the Deterministically Sovereign God who gave you the doctrines to prove you never had any other acceptable choice my Calvinist friends! Sing it! Glory, glory, glory...