Featured Should we put much stock in relatively NEW doctrine?

Why? Why anything?

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Hebrews 2:14

The Common Denominator. Is that it?

But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:19,20
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev 13:8

Why would it be necessary for man, made a little lower than the angels to have free will?

If he has free will he is then going to have to save himself because in the end of it all he will have to choose.

Since Adam what has every man that has chosen to will, willed?

The only man born of woman for whom it mattered was, the Christ, made a little lower than the angels.

He has become the new creation.

 

1]You are not using the biblical word foreknowledge correctly


2] The chicken came first

3] regeneration comes first

 

I'm listening...........please explain the correct definition of foreknowledge.

The way I understand foreknowledge is that God cannot learn anything, God already knew Eve would choose to partake of the forbidden fruit, God already knew Adam would choose to sin, God already knew Noah would choose to obey and build the ark, God already knew David would choose to slay the giant, God already knew Judas would choose to reject Jesus as Christ, God already knew _________ would choose to....etc.

 

Amen! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

It doesn't matter because the patristic age was preoccupied with more pressing issues. The Church was being persecuted by Rome and it was fragmented within. The prominent doctrinal controversies were baptism, Arianism, and Gnosticism. With the ascendancy of the Roman Catholic Church true theological debate was stifled until the 16th Century Reformation.

As an aside I think the Dispensationalists on this board would make the argument that the fact that their theological system did not appear until the mid-19th Century is immaterial. What's good for the goose....

 

http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Attributes/attrib_04.htm

this will help:wavey:

 

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

Actually ICON, it is VERY likely that Dinosaurs came first, and birds (avian reptiles) descended form particular branches of the dino family tree.

 

He asked about the chicken or the egg...not the dino..

hope you are not suggesting evolution;

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.


It is 24 hour days....The creation rest[sabbath]..was a 24 hour period...not billions of years.:thumbs:

 

I don't believe the exposition really changes anything.

When God foreknows a person, this would naturally include absolutely the whole of the person. Everything I would ever do from conception to eternity was foreknown of God before I ever existed, this is foreknowledge. So to separate foreknowledge into two distinct aspects is just an attempt to save a theology in my opinion. In God's foreknowledge He knows me as a person and everything which comes with being a person. God knows every decision I would ever make, and for those who He did foreknow would decide for Jesus Christ He did elect to become conformed to Himself. God did not get the human race started and then make adjustments. God foreknew the beginning from the end and then God set the events into motion to be played out in real time. God created freewill in the human race, and God knows all the decisions a person will make before that person comes into existence, this is foreknowledge. I don't think it should be dissected and divided apart as the person in the article has done. I think this is just an attempt to dismiss the reality of the word.

 

The Scripture does not say Abraham was righteous it says: Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.. Abraham was declared righteous because of his faith.

Later we read regarding Abraham.

Romans 4:17-24
17. (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18. Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19. And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb:
20. He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21. And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24. But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;.

I would not say there are two types of righteousness in the sense you put. I would say that only God is righteous and that redeemed man is declared to be righteous because of his faith, not that faith merits justification.

Skan, I do not consider myself a student of Calvinism. I have never read anything written by Calvin and have no desire to do so. I have read some authors who teach the doctrines of Sovereign Election and Grace, notably Dagg, Lloyd-Jones, Nettles, some of Boyce who is difficult to follow, and then Conner, considered to be weak on the Doctrines by some.

I believe that Scripture teaches that the believer is justified or declared righteous because of his faith. We may argue the origin of that faith but not its result.

 

I will go into "stealth" mode so as not to derail.

 

Well put. Calvinism must redefine the word foreknowledge as it does many other words. In this case it is to support Unconditional Election. The scriptures clearly say we are elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father. These are the persons God in his foreknowledge knows will believe the gospel when they hear it, these are "the sheep" that God gives to the Son.

The foreknowledge of faith is shown in scripture, John chapter 1 for example, Jesus knew Nathanael would be a believer before he ever met Jesus. Another example of foreknowledge of faith (or lack of) is Judas in John chapter 6, where scripture says Jesus "knew from the beginning who believed not". If Jesus knew from the beginning who would not believe, then he also knew from the beginning who would believe. So foreknowledge of faith is shown directly in scripture.

Calvinism's belief that man is unconditionally elected is nothing but pure presumption.

Scripture actually states that men are chosen because of faith.

Jam 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Men are not chosen because they are poor, a poor man can go to hell like any other man, but no man who trusts in God ever goes to hell, so this verse shows men are chosen because of faith.

2 Thes 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

This verse directly says men are chosen to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit (God's part) and belief of the truth (man's part).

There is much evidence that we are elected because of faith.

 

You miss the exact point of the exposition.This is because you do not have a dead Adam in view.

God does not look forward to learn anything[prescience]

You insert free will where the scripture does not.A nature bound by sin is hardly free.

From A Baptist Catechism with commentary;

 

Winman

Your false teaching is because of this twist that you attempt everday;
I posted this earlier in the thread...it fits your false ideas rather well.

You post this error day after day as truth eludes you.

 

Exactly correct and quite the vital truth that is unchangeable.:thumbs::applause::thumbs:

 

I thought as much.

I get your meaning but is righteousness that is unattainable, righteousness since it is nonexistent?