Featured Should we put much stock in relatively NEW doctrine?

I doubt Skan would agree with my view, BUT SCRIPTURE DOES.

I am not Arminian, I deny Original Sin. I also believe in Preservation of the Saints.

And you believe men can learn, but God cannot, you believe that man has more ability than God. :laugh:

 

Yea, but you err because you know not the Scriptures nor the power of God.

Anybody can copy and paste scriptures out context like you do. But you lack the capacity to compare Scripture with Scripture.

The Scriptures say God has wings and sits on the circle of the earth and thousand other such things.

Only a moron would think you should take each scripture literally.

And posting one that is obviously figurative and demanding that it be taken literally is the kind of thing that backwards people who despise education and think God speaks to them do.

Even most LAYMEN without any college education whatsoever, even without highschool education can read the Scriptures and see that they clearly teach that God knows all things past present and future and so when the Scriptures speak of God coming to know something they speak figuratively.

My fifth grader can get that.

But you cannot.

 

Again, Skandelon- these are the kind of people who say these kinds of things that are on your side.

I have seen you compliment Winman's biblical knowledge before.

Do you think he can have even the REMOTEST understanding of Scripture and believe this nonsense?

I suppose less than one percent of Christians throughout the history of Christianity would agree with this nonsense.

There is not a reputable Christian scholar on earth who would HESITATE to call Winman a heretic for this kind of teaching.

Most people would not think a man could go to heaven believing such things.

Do you?

 

Winman

The only thing you show is you are unteachable.I cut and paste good links with good verses to look up and learn from.You mock these teachers and ignore the verses...so now you post non christian ideas...denying that God who knows everything...actual does know everything.....your false idea is of a god who does not know, or control many things.The god you describe is a spectator who must learn things and react to what he learns...This God is the god of the heathen that is described in psalm 115;

115 Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.

2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

Sure i can...but you ignore any scripture anyone offers you...I offered to help you...you refused....I offer you good links...you refuse...Now you deny God ....you deny who God is....anyone who is a christian[cal or non cal] knows and believes God is;

Like this...posted by you:all just from this one thread.

It is blasphemy..it is non christian

:laugh:Your cartoons are much better:laugh:

 

Thanks for pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of this guy complaining about name calling.

There's nothing wrong with calling someone a name so long as you support your case for it. But there is everything wrong with BEING a name caller and complaining about people calling you names.

It is hypocritical in the highest degree.

But.. it is the kind of thing you'd expect from someone whose god does not know all things and learns as he goes.

One who has such a low view of God cannot sink too low.

 

I do not think that any other non cal...would suggest that God is not Omniscient. No one will support this and yet Winman thinks it is just fine.

he attempts to lecture on theology...but cannot describe the basic ideas of who God is by being accurate about His revealed attributes.

Winman...get a clue ;

Psalm 139

King James Version (KJV)

139 O lord, thou hast searched me, and known me.

2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.

3 Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.

4 For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O Lord, thou knowest it altogether.

5 Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.

6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.

7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

 

I ask you for SCRIPTURE that shows God cannot learn, what do you offer? Articles from Spurgeon. That is not scripture.

You have not shown one word of scripture that says God cannot learn.

 

He is doing this on a regular basis...Inspector Javert tried to bail him out last time...but this is even worse . Having a wrong view of the fall and denying original sin, opens the floodgates to all manner of error.

Instead of trying to learn...he posts to kill threads all the time...that seems to be the goal.

No one can or will support this error. I notice most of the non cals are silent on this Is there any non cal...or anyone at all who believes this to be a christian idea at all?

 

This scripture does not support your view, it says God SEARCHED David, then he knew him.

I asked in an earlier post, if God does not learn, then why does he need to SEARCH men's hearts? Why does he need to TRY or test them?

Psa 139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

David prays here and asks God to "search me" to know him, and to "try me" to know him, and "and see" if there be any wicked way in him.

Words have meaning, to search, and to try, and to see are words that show a progression of learning.

I can show you over and over and over again that scriptures shows God learning, you have yet to show one word that says he cannot.

I don't care what Spurgeon, or Pink, or Gill, or any of your "scholars" think, I want to see what the word of God says.

 

In his defense he is arriving at the logical place Arminians have to go if they will follow their own teachings out to their necessary end.

You are either a Calvinist, an Arminian who refuses to (or is unable to) follow his own doctrines to their logical ends or you are a blatant heretic who denies the omniscience of God.

Those really are your options.

 

The same David says:

Psalm 139:1-6

To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David.
O Lord, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me.

 

I don't have the ability to kill a thread. A thread is usually closed when one of you Calvinists goes crying like a baby to a moderator. They are usually quite happy to accomodate you. You guys can't handle truth.

 

The article just lists the attributes of God.Any article on this topic is loaded with scripture on this...you reject them...

i just posted part of psalm 139 that if you understood it at all describes how God knows everything...from womb to tomb...i cannot read it for you..try and understand it...then repent and retract your horrid posts.

Psalm 139

King James Version (KJV)

139 O lord, thou hast searched me, and known me.

2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.

3 Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.

4 For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O Lord, thou knowest it altogether.

5 Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.

6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.

7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;

10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.

12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

18 If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.

19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.

20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.

21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting

 

I have not gone to any moderator to close a thread...I do wonder why they do not request that you repent of these non christian postings.

Is there any moderator who believes the Biblical God is not all knowing???

this is not a different point of view.....this is and has been rejected throughout church history.

 

Yes, it does, and I agree with that verse 100%.

You will not understand, but I believe God is omniscient. At the same time, I believe God learns. At the same time, I do not believe this is a contradiction.

When God appears to man, he appears in a limited form, else men would fall dead on the spot. This is shown in Exodus 33;

Exo 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

As you see here, God spoke to Moses face to face, and Moses did not die. But later, Moses asks to see God in his "glory" and is told he cannot see God's face lest he die.

Exo 33:18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

See, you do not understand my view at all. I believe when God appeared to man that he appeared in a limited form. In this form he is not omniscient, or omnipotent, that is why Jacob could prevail in a wrestling match. That is why God asks questions in certain passages and why Jesus did not know the exact day and hour he would return.

At the same time, God in heaven in his glory knows everything.

Your problem is that you do not know the scriptures because you rely on others to think for you.

 

Then something can be wet and dry at the same time and in the same sense.

It's nonsense.

Something cannot be and not be at the same time and in the same sense. If it can then NOTHING is logical and there is no point in discussing anything because every conclusion can be both comepletely true and completely false at the same time. In that case NOTHING anyone says matters. It can be just as much wrong as it is rigth.

You don't understand that God cannot KNOW all things, past, present and future and learn things at the same time.

 

Then you have to deal with scripture that clearly shows God learning. The scriptures say God tried men that he MIGHT KNOW their hearts as in the case of Hezekiah.

2 Chr 32:31 Howbeit in the business of the ambassadors of the princes of Babylon, who sent unto him to inquire of the wonder that was done in the land, God left him, to try him, that he might know all that was in his heart.

The difference between me and you is that you think you know everything, and that the scriptures must conform to your personal view.

I am different, I let God tell me his truth and I try to believe it, even if it is difficult to understand at times.

I have to go to work now.

 

It's not literal Winamn- no more than when the Bible says that Jesus has dozens of eye balls all over his body or that God has wings and a hundred other non-literal passages speaking of God.

I DO deal with the passages. The problem is that you do NOT DEAL with them. You just quote them. The LAST thing you ever do is DEAL with them. To DEAL with them means to compare them with other passages. It means to avoid like the plague the act of trying to prove your point by proof texting verses by themselves and NOT DEALINGwith other verses that speak on the same subject.

We ARE dealing with the passages. You are just quoting them and, like a petulant child, saying, "SEE THERE!! I'M RIGHT!! I'M RIGHT!!"

 

I tried on his idea that God can fail and has failed. Sometimes you have to shake the dust off those sandals.

 

No, they are not the only two options. I have been labeled both in debates. Most folks fall somewhere in between the two.