Featured Looking for insight on - What is Reformed Theology? by R.C. Sproul

Yes. It is a work we do only to the extent that it is a thing we do (exercise faith), but it is not a meritorious work. It has to be carefully phrased this way or else it gives the impression that our salvation is of works.

 

Jon, I think it is a misunderstanding. The atonement is basically a payment for sin. It is incapable of saving unless it is applied. The vehicle by which it is applied is saving faith.

 

Why not drop the word atonement with its Calvinist baggage, and adopt reconciliation. Thus the finished work of the cross provided reconciliation to all, i.e. Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, and receiving that reconciliation through faith in the truth.

 

Paul says "with the heart" man believeth. Yet the unregenerated heart is not willing to believe as it is in a state of enmity against God. I believe that when the gospel is preached to an elect at the appointed time of salvation that human instrumentality bring the gospel unto the elect in "word only" but at that point the Holy Spirit takes the preached word and empowers it so that it becomes His creative word to speak into existence a new heart(2 Cor. 4:6) or a creative revelation of Jesus Christ as Savior within the elect. Hence, the gospel preached not only is the creative word producing the new heart but is at the very same instance this empowered revelation of the gospel within the elect is the object of faith. Thus with the new heart man believeth unto salvation. Hence, salvation is by creative revelation (Mt. 16:17; Gal. 1:15-16; Jn. 17:2-3).

 

Hi JonC, you made quite a few statements, many of which seem questionable.

1) Atonement does not mean reconciliation. The NASB uses the word "atonement" in the OT to translate "kaphar" (Strongs H3722.) In the lexicon it says, to make atonement, to make reconciliation.

2) The NASB does not use atonement in the NT. However the KJV uses atonement at Romans 5:11. And the word there in the NASB is reconciliation.

3) So perhaps you might describe in what way atonement in the NT (referring to the finished work of the cross) differs from providing reconciliation to all.

4) We agree that Christ's work on the cross paid the debt or sin burden for anyone spiritually placed in Christ. Those not in Christ still owe their debt of sin, they have not received the reconciliation, which is where scripture teaches the debt is removed, where we are justified.

 

God intention in the death of jesus was to recocile back to Himself by that act of atonement a chosen peoples, those whom he selected out to be as His own, preappointed unto eternal life!

 

We differ with PB/Hypers, as they would hold that the payment for sin actually done at Cross/applied there, while we differ with arminians, as they see faith as something in all sinners!

 

So Yeshua1, Arminians believe all sinners have saving faith in them? Got ya, right.

 

Thanks JonC, not very many folks here are actually willing to discuss differing views on anything theological.

As I understand your comments "atonement" refers to reconciliation provided, and reconciliation refers "atonement applied." I drop the atonement and simply have reconciliation provided and reconciliation received.

Before we even think about studying hilasterion and the related words hilaskomai and hilasmos, we must address the three cornerstone words of salvation - propitiation, the means of salvation, redemption, the act of salvation, and reconciliation, the result of salvation. Our word study below enters into the arena of the means of salvation, which is Jesus Christ.

Hilasterion

Our best understanding is that hilasterion referred to the lid of the ark of the covenant, which was sprinkled with blood, and thus referred to as the mercy seat. Articles on its meaning are filled with classic words like expiation, atonement, and propitiation, all of which convey almost nothing to the modern reader. In a nutshell, under the Old Covenant, the blood of animals was sprinkled on the hilasterion on the day of atonement to provide temporary reconciliation with God and avoidance of the wages of sin. Under the New Covenant, Jesus, covered with His precious blood, has become our "hilasterion" (and our blood sin offering) as the means of everlasting reconciliation with God and avoidance of the wages of sin.

Three related Greek words (Hilasterion and Hilasmos-nouns and Hilaskomai -verb) appear 6 times in the New Testament, Romans 3:25, Hebrews 9:5 ; 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:10, Luke 18:13, and Hebrews 2:17. If we look at several translations we find the words translated as (1) propitiatory sacrifice; (2) propitiation; (3) mercy seat; (4) atonement and (5) atoning sacrifice for the nouns; with the verb being translated as (1) have mercy; (2) be merciful; (3) turn your wrath; and (4) make propitiation.

In short the verb refers to the act of having mercy and the noun to the means of having mercy. Therefore hilasterion should be understood as the means of obtaining mercy , i.e the propitiatory shelter.

The verb appears (hilaskomai) in Hebrews 2:17, thus is translated "make propitiation" and refers to Jesus becoming the propitiation or means of salvation for all mankind. Jesus accomplished this, i.e. providing the means of salvation, by laying down is life as a ransom for all.

 

This statement provides a false choice, i.e. either atonement is effective and can accomplish salvation apart from faith, or faith on our part is a necessary work to accomplish salvation.

But scripture teaches neither view, faith provides access to the saving grace of God. Thus when God credits or reckons our faith as righteousness, that opens the door so to speak such that God then puts us into Christ, into the grace and mercy provided by Christ, thus as Paul said, "...through whom [Christ] also we have obtained our introduction by faith into the grace in which we stand, and we exult in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:2

 

The payment for sin was accomplished at the cross, but the sin-debt owed by the individual is not canceled until justification takes place.

 

Which happens when the sinner receives jesus and His work done of their behalf thru faith, correct?

 

Do most beieve that faith is a gift from God, or something inherit within us, that we chose to exercise?

 

So would be:

calvinists teach that faith is a gift from God to ONLY those elected to receive eternal life in Christ

arminians that God grants that gift to all, and elects those who choose jesus tosave them

Non cals Gift inherit in all, up to us to freely accept/relect Jesus?

 

That's why I said Sproul is not a theologian, he's a philosopher. He's trying to reason in his own mind what scripture never says.

The biggest thing he misses is that scripture teaches a distinction between the spirit and the body - not just at birth and death, but as it relates to sin and righteousness throughout life. BY missing this, it leads to confusion as it relates to Christ's work on the cross and His resurrection.

Our body is sinful on account of Adam because we are from him. Every person ever born came out of Adam. That's why when he sinned, we all came to feel the effects of his sin - physical death. That is the thrust of Romans 5:12-21 and 1Cor 15:20-22

However, our spirit becomes sinful when we turn and go our own way. This is why Paul starts Romans our by saying that we become futile, we become fools, we exchanged the truth for a lie, etc. He was building the case that we are without excuse (Romans 1:18-2:2).

At the end of his treatise on justification, Paul mentions the resurrection of Christ (Romans 4:25). Then he goes into Romans 5 speaking of "having been justified" (v1, 10), and "we shall be saved from wrath through Him" (v9) and "we shall be saved by His life" (v10). That would be resurrection of the body. Why does Romans 5:18 has a ring of universalism to it? Because the resurrection IS universal.

Justification is not the only benefit of Christ's work, a physical resurrection is also reaped. He was the first fruit of resurrection

By confusing the spirit and the body, the work of Christ is misconstrued as being only applicable to believers. But John 5:29 teaches that those who were unrighteous will be raised. If their [bodily] sins weren't paid for, then how can they be raised?

If unbelievers were raised without their body being redeemed, then their body would be completely annihilated by the wrath of God. Their bodies will be raised imperishable just like a believer's body will be, because Jesus paid the debt for all men.

This exactly why Paul wrote that Christ is the savior of all men, especially those who believe (1Tim 4:10).

But only those who receive Him are justified.

Sproul also mistakenly thinks that faith is a action, like God gives us a spiritual water gun at regeneration, then we decide to aim it and shoot.

But faith is utterly passive, when we are fully assured that what God has promised, He is also able to perform (Romans 4:21). Not a work at all. It is conviction and enlightenment from the Holy Spirit. Then we are justified on account of faith

Sproul's philosophical meanderings fail the test of scripture.

 

Hi JamesL, thanks for actually presenting your view!

I agree that speculation is the mother of mistaken doctrine. Adding to scripture is condemned at least three times in scripture.

I believe as a consequence of Adam's sin we are conceived in iniquity meaning in a spiritually separated from God state. But beyond that we are also corrupted spiritually, thus rather than the corruption being passed to us biologically, it is passed spiritually. Note when the consequence of Adam's sin was applied, both his eyes and Eve's eyes were opened. So the corruption entered Eve after her physical being was created.

Now in Romans 1:21 we see the fact that men who choose not to honor God become men whose lives are pointless, accomplishing nothing of value. Futile. Next, in the same verse, we see that as they continued to turn their back to God, their foolish - unwise - heart was darkened. As we seek the treasures of this world, we become more like the depraved world and less like God, in whom there is no shadow. Finally they not only do what they know is wrong, they encourage others to also do what is wrong.