Featured Some arguments against Arminianism

Permit me to add to the list of Calvinists of the past in no order:

John Gill
John Brine
John Bunyan
John Lightfoot
John Ryland Sr.
John Ryland Jr.
John Flavel
John Cotton
John Foxe
John Preston
John Hus(s)
John Wycliffe
John Knox
John Newton

And,last,but certainly not least,my namesake :John Rippon.

 

1) Makes no sense and is not biblical.
2) Shows the mercy of God and is perfectly biblical.
3) Shows absolutely no justice and is most certainly not biblical.

 

I can continue this list till the chickens roost however it doesnt carry weight with these guys.....we have been there & done this multiple times unfortunately.

 

It is true that I always believed faith is a gift of God, and that I also have always clung to perseverence of the saints. But I still held firmly to free will, Brother Wes.

We have showed you a myriad of times that regeneration MUST precede conversion, you just don't accept the answers given. A skewed view of the fall gives a skewed view of your, or mine, our theological belief system.

 

Willis, you have NEVER shown that regeneration precedes faith. Oh, in your mind you may believe that is so, but in reality it is not. Regeneration does not mean to be taught or enlightened, it literally means to be made alive (generated) again (re). That is what the word means, you cannot simply choose to redefine it to fit your new found beliefs.

Now, if you want to continue to redefine this word, there is nothing I can do to stop you, but regeneration happens AFTER you believe. Until you believe you are dead in trespasses and sins and cannot possibly be alive again.

Jhn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

I'm not going to bother with you anymore Willis. I will talk to others, but you have sold yourself over to error. Believe whatever you want.

 

Are you serious? You are under the impression that just because I produced a list of notable Calvinists having John as their first name would cause a convinced Arminian to become a Calvinist? Now I've heard everything! :laugh:

 

Willis is one of the nicest people on the BB and you act like that in reply to him?
Be very careful about using the terminology you have.

Your frustration level is at a low tolerance there winman. I bet you'd feel a whole lot better if he was nasty to you. He isn't and yet you get bent out of shape.

 

Listen to you, you are one of the nastiest persons here at BB. You have a lot of gall lecturing me.

You need to take a good look in the mirror hypocrite.

 

My frustration with Willis, is that he parrots Calvinist cliches like Yeshua1. He doesn't think anymore, he just repeats what he has been conditioned to believe. He says the exact same arguments that all Calvinists do.

What bothers me is that he knows different. He used to think. He used to be against Calvinism, and he knew why. He quoted scripture. Here is an example.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1975614&postcount=105

Here is another example;

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1948954&postcount=47

Willis used to know that a person is dead in sins until they believe, Willis used to repeatedly say it was error to believe regeneration precedes faith. And he knew why, he could give you the scriptures to back it up.

Willis has every right to change his view if he wants to, but what irks me is how he simply parrots Calvinist cliches just like Yeshua1. If he could show scripture to back it up, that would not bother me.

Anybody can ask things like, "Can a corpse believe?" That's what I mean by a Calvinist cliche. It is meaningless, doesn't prove anything, and has no support in scripture.

That's not debating. If you don't have a real argument, keep your yap shut. We already got a bunch of mindless parrots here.

 

Brother, show me where I parrot others? I haven't used the LBCF, WCF, the Blackrock Address, nor have I posted other theologians quotes in my posts, to the best of my knowledge. I stick with the scriptures.

But I would be lying if I said I was shocked you'd turn nasty on me. Deep down inside, I knew you would.

Off to the killfire you go.....

 

Go jump in a lake. :smilewinkgrin:

 

Yes it does. It makes absolutely no sense for Jesus to marvel or be amazed at great faith if it is a gift of God, and it is equally as nonsensical to marvel at unbelief if faith is a gift from God.

Baloney, the subject was faith and whether it was a gift. The passages I showed both directly relate to that subject and both equally reveal your view to be nonsensical.

There is not a different kind of faith in salvation, you cannot show that. The only thing different with faith is the OBJECT of that faith. Faith is not some magical mystical substance floating around. Your idea of faith is nothing short of superstition.

Those are easy to explain and I have explained them. Those that are drawn, those that come to Jesus are those that have been taught of the Father. They have listened and learned. Nothing magical there, just paying attention and learning from the word of God. Again, your view is mystical, a Roman Catholic type of religion.

This verse does not mean they were unable to hear Jesus's words, but that they were stubborn and obstinate and would not listen. A perfect example in scripture is Joseph's brothers.

Gen 37:4 And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him.

Is scripture teaching Total Inability here? NO. Joseph's brothers could have spoken peacefully to him if they had not been so jealous and obstinate. Years later they are completely reconciled to Joseph and quite easily speak kindly to him.

This is how cultists interpret the Bible, they go through the scriptures searching for a word like "cannot" to try to prove what they have already determined to believe, Total Inability. And that is exactly what you did here. John 8 is not saying men cannot repent and listen to Jesus, only they would not.

LOL, it doesn't say they were appointed to believe, it says they were appointed to eternal life. Yes, God has appointed that all who believe shall receive eternal life. You are reading Calvinism into a verse when it is not there.

What does this have to do with faith?

Good, 'cause your argument wasn't makin' it.

To the contrary, I showed 2 The 2:13 that says we are chosen "through" belief of the truth, and I showed a Presbyterian pastor who agreed with this interpretation. You did not refute that article.

No, you 've given me the "canned" re-definition that all Calvinists parrot. Foreknowledge means exactly what it says Fore (before) knowledge (knowledge). It simply means to know something before it happens. I know you will insist it means an intimate knowledge of someone, and it can mean that, but it also means to know events before they happen such as was shown in Acts 2:23;

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Is this verse speaking about some personal and intimate relationship? NOPE, it is saying Jesus was delivered by God's foreknowledge. Jesus knew the soldiers would come for him in the garden, and he allowed himself to be taken. This is speaking of knowing EVENTS before they happened.

So, you can insist all day long on your Calvinist redefinition of the word foreknowledge, and you will be in error all day long.

This is going back to verse 44-45 where Jesus said no man can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him, and then Jesus explains how that is accomplished, every man that has been TAUGHT, that has HEARD and LEARNED from the Father comes to Jesus. Those persons who pay attention to the word of God and learn from it come to Jesus. Jesus did not say persons who come to him were magically zapped to come. Superstition.

No, Jesus has foreknowledge of faith. He knew "from the beginning" who believed not. Well, if he knows from the beginning who will not believe, then by simple process of elimination he also knew from the beginning who would believe.

Here you are directly being shown God has foreknowledge of faith, but you refuse to see it. Your loss.

If someone is sincere, and is really looking at evidence, I will patiently present evidence all day long. But when it is obvious someone is just jerking me around, then I tend to get a little sarcastic and "snarky" with them. They aren't going to listen anyway, so what difference does it make?

You aren't interested in learning, you will parrot the same old tired proof texts every other Calvinist parrots. And you misinterpret them the same way as you demonstrated with Acts 13:48. You have been conditioned by false doctrine to completely misinterpret what that verse is saying, it is not saying people are ordained or appointed to believe.

If people are ordained to believe, then those who are not ordained to believe are ordained to unbelief, which is a sin. This would make God the author of sin.

 

It is impossible to show regeneration precedes faith, because it is impossible for that to be true.

No one can be spiritually alive until their sins are forgiven, and no one's sins are forgiven until they believe on Jesus. Therefore it is absolutely logically impossible to be regenerated before faith. Until you believe you are dead in sins and you will die in those sins unless you believe.

Jhn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Your view is logically impossible, it cannot be correct. If you had common sense and logic you would KNOW this is absolute truth.

 

Where did this faith capacity come from? Do all sinners have this ability inherit within them?

Were Adam and Eve born changed into sinners by the fall, and did cain get that sin nature from them, as he murdered abel?

Where did THAT desire to kill come from? not from God!

And the lord already has written down ALL of those names of the redeemed from eternity past, so why does he need to "see their faith?"