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Some arguments against Arminianism
- Thread starter RLBosley
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I saw nothing wrong in posts numbers 78 and 79. You are seeing things that aren't there.
Hello Rm,
It is clear by now that I understand scripture to teach that redemption is a covenant made by the triune God...and graced unto sinners...In Christ.
Simply Jn 6:37-65 teaches this along with jn 10 and jn 17.....
that is why God tells Noah, Abraham, and all the saints that [I will make MY covenant with you} that is why Abram was put to sleep when God passed through and "cut' the Covenant in gen 15...
The Atonement was the once for all time perfect sacrifice that actually saves all those elected by the father and given to the Son.
it is a perfect plan, perfectly executed and unfolding right on time as we speak.....
Since God chose to make a Covenant with the jewish peoples in the OT, based upon HIS WILL alone, why would it change when we get to the new/better Covenant established by blood of Christ?
Here again we see the KJB is quite different than the MVs;
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
This verse does not say these persons were never written in the book of life, only that they are not written in the book of life at the time described in this verse.
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Now this verse can be interpreted two ways. I believe it only means these persons were not written in the book of life pertaining to the time this verse refers to in the future. The words "from the foundation of the world" only describe when the book of life was written.
I can see that some would say this means these persons were never written in the book of life. I personally do not agree with that interpretation.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
This verse also does not say their names were never written in the book of life.
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
This also does not say their names were never written in the book of life.
So, none of these verses prove that some people are never written in the book of life.
If you believe that some persons were never written in the book of life, then you cannot hold to eternal security, because scripture speaks of those who are blotted out. You would have to believe these persons were once saved and their names entered into the book of life, but then they forfeited their salvation and their names blotted out. No Calvinist could hold this view.
The Covenant of Redemption was made among the trinity alone. It includes all the elected persons.
When this covenant is offered to man...Gen 3......it is the covenant of grace....that it goes to the nation of Israel later on is for God's purposes of having a Holy nation.....they like Adam failed.......Both are set straight in the new covenant as we learn that the Christian Israel has always been God's design
How absurd of you. There is no substance to your claim. The meaning of these verses in the KJV and the modern versions --specifically the NIV which I had referenced, is identical.
The bottom line is that everyone whose name is registered in the Lamb's Book of Life goes to glory. Those whose names not found in the Book of Life will go to Perdition. No ifs ands or buts about it. All your vain contortions cannot change the facts of the Word of God.
There certainly is a difference, and YOU demonstrated it perfectly.
NIV- All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.
The NIV directly implies these person's names were NEVER written in the book of life.
KJB- And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
The King James simply says these person's names "are not" written in the book of life. It does not say they were never written in the book of life and indeed leaves open the possibility that they were.
The KJB and NIV give a very different meaning that absolutely affects doctrine.
It is the NIVs interpretation of this verse that led you to believe many people are never written in the book of life. Of course, this conveniently agrees with the Calvinistic view of Unconditional Election, that only certain persons have been chosen for salvation, and the rest have been passed over.
If indeed all person's names were originally written in the book of life (which I believe they were), this would absolutely refute Unconditional Election as Calvinism defines it.
No, we never read of anyone's name being added to the book of life, only persons being blotted out.
Again, if your view is correct, then it refutes Eternal Security. You believe only elect person's names were written in the book of life. Therefore, if any person's name is blotted out, that person lost salvation.
Your own view cannot be reconciled with Calvinism.
My view does not refute Eternal Security. All persons were written in the book of life. It was God's will that all men be saved. But those who refuse to believe are blotted out. Those who believe are never blotted out, they are secure.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Your view makes Rev 3:5 a meaningless and idle threat.
It is Revelation 3:5 that shows us Rev 17:8 is not teaching that some person's names were never written in the book of life. Scripture cannot contradict itself.
The only alternative is the Arminian view that teaches persons can be saved but fall from grace and their names blotted out.
But scripture does not support the Calvinist view whatsoever. ZERO, ZIP, ZILCH, NADA!
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Who said they were? Not me. Show where I said that.
I said that I believe everyone's name was originally in the book of life, but those who reject Jesus are blotted out. Their name will not be found in the book of life on judgment day.
If your view is correct, then no one can be certain they will be saved. If only the elect were written in the book of life, then only the elect can be blotted out. This would make eternal security false doctrine and does not agree with Perseverance of the Saints.
So, your view does not agree with Calvinism. Isn't that a hoot! :laugh:
Much like your KJVO belief --the above speculation is not biblical.
"My view." I cited Scripture for "my view." Your cheese has slid off your cracker.
The elect and the elect only will be saved. The names of the elect only are recorded in the Lamb's Book of Life. The certainty of salvation is that one has placed saving faith in the Lord alone for their salvation.
Based on your sorry track record on the BB, your analysis is deeply flawed on this subject and just about everything else.
It is not speculation, the scriptures speak of person's names being blotted out of the book of life.
Exo 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Deu 9:14 Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they.
Psa 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.
The scriptures repeatedly speak of names being blotted "out" of the book of life. If your view is correct, then eternal security is false doctrine. That refutes the P in TULIP.
Well, you quoted the NIV which differed from the KJB. This difference affected your view of doctrine.
I agree the elect will be saved. That doesn't change the fact that person's names are written in the book of life who are blotted out. But of course, this refutes the U in TULIP.
Man, you Calvinists just can't catch a break can you?
My track record is better (much better) than yours. Many people have written that they agree with me many times here on BB.
This thread is closed.
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