Featured Atonement

Based upon Him deciding to have the death of christ benefir them and save them, or else based upon him seeing they would place faith in jeus themselves though?

 

Excellent job! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

What a joke......:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

What are the extremes that you seem to feel are within both systems then?

Perhaps you are what is called a 4 point calvinist then?

 

Are you referring to old school Baptists? If so, you better proove your point.

 

Calvinism's view of Ephesians 1:4 is not just wrong, it is obviously wrong. Thus the subject is avoided.

If we change or add to the text, such as no charge can be brought against the elect, once they are saved, we are nullifying scripture, making it to no effect.

And again if we were simply comparing two verses, Romans 8:33 and Ephesians 1:4, Calvinism would seem to have a plausible view. But when we stack up a half dozen verses against Calvinism's questionable view of Ephesians 1:4, the Calvinist side loses plausibility.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen through faith in the truth. Now could we have faith in the truth before we heard the gospel? Nope, faith comings from hearing. We can reconcile these two verses by observing Ephesians 1:4 refers to a corporate, rather than individual election. When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He also chose corporately, those the Redeemer would redeem. Hence, He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.

Now, with that view, all the verses fit together. When we are chosen individually through faith in the truth, we are placed in Christ, and thus no charge can be brought against God's elect.

Still not convinced, consider 1 Peter 2:9-10 where we lived without mercy, and were not a people, but then were a chosen people, and had obtained mercy.

Next how about James 2:5, where God chose those poor to the world, yet rich in faith and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love him. So yet again we have God choosing individuals not before creation, but during their lives after they are rich in faith and love God.

Need more, how about 1 Corinthians 1:26-30 with God choosing individuals to shame others living on earth. All these elections of individuals found in scripture are conditional and occur during the lifetime of the individual.

 

mankind as sinners are spiritually dead in Adam, made alive again in Christ, and placed into that relationship by the act of the Will of God, not the will of us !

 

Does any Calvinist have a rebuttal for Van which deals with his actual post?

 

If one actually reads the whole chapter of Eph 1 it reads against Calvinism's pov. Verse 13 specifically reads against Calvinism..."In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

You did not receive the Holy Spirit of promise to make you believe!!!!!!!!

 

We can't understand mysterious words like : "after".

 

Good one :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: I like it.......

 

Where did we get outr faith from to believe in jesus van?

How can someone spiritually dead respond by their own natures to Jesus?

God writes all those down in Book of Life before foundation of the World, as he dtermines all who go there and get saved, so if he records each one of us down by name, as it that not individual election?