Answering the Emerging Church

[evangelist6589]

What else could I have said to this team of pastors? What book should I get him if he is open to reading? There are DOZENS on the gospel, but perhaps one for the Emergent would be best. Thanks..

Dear xxxx,

Thank you for your kind response. Of the three emerging churches I have contacted you may be the best of the bunch while The Journey Emerging Church the worst. You may indeed be apostate but to a different degree than others I have contacted such as The Unitarian Universalist church, United Methodist, Openly Gay/Homosexual churches, American Baptist and others. But none the less a gun can still kill anyone if it were to be pointed at ones head, regardless of the make and model. That said your doctrine while not as obviously deadly as that of the Universalist Church & other New Age Churches such as the Science of the Mind clones your doctrine is still deadly, and defiantly more cloaked. You know something rat poison is mostly made of protein, but is quite deadly for humans and animals. Did you not read the gospel tracts that I sent? Was one of the tracts I sent called True Faith or False Hope (http://pro-gospel.org/site/cpage.as...th-or-False-Hope/p/36248183/category=636671)? I am sorry I can’t remember exactly which ones I sent to your church.

I plead for you to get back to the Bible and yes I will be in prayer for your salvation and for you to get back to the Gospel that Jesus taught. If you are open to it I can buy you a book on the gospel. Just let me know. I am also reasoning with a Catholic at this time and he is open and is personally reading a book on the gospel by John Piper.


John

HI John, we did receive your letter. We obviously have a different theological approach and understanding of scripture than you do, but your sincere concern for us and our church was very clear. We sometimes get critical letters of concern that are mean spirited. It was apparent to us all that yours was written and motivated out of love for the truth, concern for the glory of God and for the individual lives affected by the ministry of our church. Thank you

As a team of co-pastors, we spent most of our lives in heart of the evangelical tradition and were educated in seminaries that held views close to the ones you shared with us. We would describe the shifts in our theology as something we've experienced through the leading of the Holy Spirit, the Word and a lot of serious, thoughtful reflection. I know for many, where we have arrived is judged as apostate. I would have thought so myself for many of the years I was in ministry.

Over the millennia, the people of God have gone through significant shifts in theological understanding as they've followed the Lord. For the first century, monotheistic Jews, it was a humongous shift to acknowledge that Jesus, too, is God along with the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Jewish Christians also went through a major shift when, through the insistence of Paul, they eventually acknowledge that Jesus wasn't just the Messiah for the Jews but for the Gentiles as well. In both cases, those who opposed the shift had plenty of bible verses to support why they thought the changes were ungodly and damnable.

I no longer enter debates about our church's stance because they have never, ever been fruitful. I am content to let the fruit of the Spirit within our church be our ample testimony.

That being said, John, I would never ask anyone who is praying for our church for ANY reason to stop praying for us. If we remain a burden on your heart, we would be honored to have you hold us up in continued prayer.

Blessings,
xxxxx

 

[Crabtownboy]

Enlighten me. What do you mean when you say emerging church?

 

[matt wade]

He (or she) has very politely informed you that they received your letter and to now leave them alone. They made it very clear that they did not wish to debate or continue with you. Leave them be.

 

[JamesL]

John,
I'll say this in all sincerity.....

What you could have done differently is what you should do the next time you type an email to one of these churches.

Email it to me, or somebody, who is willing to proof read it and edit it.

I can tell you one thing for sure.....tact is not one of your spiritual gifts

 

[JamesL]

He (or she) has very politely informed you that they received your letter and to now leave them alone. They made it very clear that they did not wish to debate or continue with you. Leave them be.

Yes. The next step concerning this church is to step away

 

[JonC]

What else could I have said to this team of pastors? What book should I get him if he is open to reading? There are DOZENS on the gospel, but perhaps one for the Emergent would be best. Thanks..

Much of the emerging church movement is a reaction to mainstream Christianity (personally, I think it an exaggerated reaction to a perceived state regarding traditional Christianity). The author of that letter (or email?) is extraordinarily kind. Personally, my view is that the emerging church pastors have the gospel (even if they choose to ignore it). It is not up to you to do anything, except warn those under your charge of emergent theology. You seem to take evangelism to a militant level unknown in Scripture. But here I’d recommend a biblical stance…emergent doctrine is false doctrine. What does Scripture say to do?

If they choose to correspond, then that's another matter. Still, unless you are willing to read and learn from people like Brian McLaren then don't suggest they read your favorite authors. (BTW, I don't suggest you read McLaren's books...partly because of the influence books seem to have over your thinking). If they choose to debate, then stick to Scripture (it won't work as they view Scripture as an ongoing narrative...but all you can do is put it out there). JamesL is right...the next step is to step away.

 

[evangelist6589]

John,

I'll say this in all sincerity.....



What you could have done differently is what you should do the next time you type an email to one of these churches.



Email it to me, or somebody, who is willing to proof read it and edit it.



I can tell you one thing for sure.....tact is not one of your spiritual gifts

Okay. But I usually mail letters so I can include tracts.

Tact. Nope I just say it the way it is.

 

[evangelist6589]

Yes. The next step concerning this church is to step away

Indeed. Sent letters in the mail to 15 churches anyways. I did say I would personally visit a certain American Baptist church but I may not as I can't visit them all.

As for me I just try and say it the way it is. Yes I am bold and confrontational. Reminds me of a certain book that I am reading by a Puritan Reformed like author. He speaks on hell and says it the way it is as well. A very confrontational author.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Indeed. Sent letters in the mail to 15 churches anyways. I did say I would personally visit a certain American Baptist church but I may not as I can't visit them all.

As for me I just try and say it the way it is. Yes I am bold and confrontational. Reminds me of a certain book that I am reading by a Puritan Reformed like author. He speaks on hell and says it the way it is as well. A very confrontational author.

Speak or write to others in the same manner in which you would like to be spoken or written to.

 

[evangelist6589]

My latest reply

I sure hope the Holy Spirit will convict him of his sin. I will pray for him tomorrow in SS.

On Oct 4, 2014, at 3:12 PM, xxxxx wrote:

Hi John Again, I appreciate your concern and your willingness to act on the strength of your convictions as I am doing so with mine.
Peace of Christ be with you,
xxx

As you wish Tim, but is not the Bible the authority for faith, life and practice (2 Tim 3:16, Heb 4:12, Psa 19, Eph 6:17, Jer 23:29)? If it is why could a church like yours endorse the so-called Gay Christian movement? This I’d expert from the American Baptist Church, but not the Emerging Church. But then again not the Emerging Church that I once attended back in 2005. Mark are you aware of what Romans 1 teaches? Are you aware of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah? God’s judgment is going to rain down on sinners that have rejected him and are sexually immoral and homosexual as he did in Genesis. You endorse Jeff Chu. Well I can tell you one thing he is certainly no follower of God, but is someone Jesus warned about in Mt 7:15-23 and someone whom may be told by Christ that he never knew.

Sadly Mark I give you the same warning for you certainly know the Bibles clear teachings on Homosexuality and about sin, Hell and man’s separation from God. Once again I plead for you. The Bible is the authority and not man’s opinions. I really dislike books like ones by Jeff Chu that air opinions and not scripture. The books I read are Bible saturated and written by conservative evangelicals that take the Bible seriously. If you want a good book on love read the book God Loves you by David Jeremiah and hear what he has to say about homosexuality, and also pay close attention to the chapter on the 10 commandments and its convicting power to convict man of his sin.

Finally read this quote on Hell by Edward Donnelly in his book on heaven & Hell.

The deepest pits of hell may well be reserved not for the notoriously wicked, but for those who, from childhood, were familiar with the message of salvation, yet never embraced it for themselves (20).


John

 

[JonC]

Who’s Tim and Who’s Mark?

Anyway, I think you may benefit from understanding the theology of the Emergent Church if you are going to continue. I recommend that you don’t continue….but if you are, then you need to read and understand their theology as you are not communicating. Again…bad idea, but you already seem engaged in bad ideas. And again, I don’t recommend you read their theology because of the influence books tend to have over you. IMHO, the best thing that you can do (as they have received the gospel message) is back off. Take it or leave it…and I don’t mean it negatively so please don’t take it that way. My suggestion is to re-evaluate your…what did you call it…”militant” evangelism…or “militant” Christianity…something like that…evaluate that with Scripture (not some book that strikes your fancy) before you go forward.

 

[evangelist6589]

Speak or write to others in the same manner in which you would like to be spoken or written to.

Law to the proud and grace for the humble. A proud person deserves the law.

 

[evangelist6589]

Who’s Tim and Who’s Mark?

Anyway, I think you may benefit from understanding the theology of the Emergent Church if you are going to continue. I recommend that you don’t continue….but if you are, then you need to read and understand their theology as you are not communicating. Again…bad idea, but you already seem engaged in bad ideas. And again, I don’t recommend you read their theology because of the influence books tend to have over you. IMHO, the best thing that you can do (as they have received the gospel message) is back off. Take it or leave it…and I don’t mean it negatively so please don’t take it that way. My suggestion is to re-evaluate your…what did you call it…”militant” evangelism…or “militant” Christianity…something like that…evaluate that with Scripture (not some book that strikes your fancy) before you go forward.

I have the book The Truth War by MacArthur. I am aware of a book by DA Carson on the movement that I may buy. Is that a good one or is there a better one?

MacArthur in his book does not use tact, he just blasts away at their doctrines and teachings which yes is the approach used in scripture.

 

[JonC]

Law to the proud and grace for the humble. A proud person deserves the law.

"Law to the proud and grace for the humble"? I'm not sure I understand the context. Please provide Scripture.

 

[evangelist6589]

"Law to the proud and grace for the humble"? I'm not sure I understand the context. Please provide Scripture.

The Rich Young Ruler, The woman at the well vs. Zachias the tax collector, and Nicodemus. He used law with some, and gave grace to others.

 

[JonC]

I have the book The Truth War by MacArthur. I am aware of a book by DA Carson on the movement that I may buy.

MacArthur in his book does not use tact, he just blasts away at their doctrines and teachings.

I don't mean read what other people think of Emergent Theology. If you are going to continue, you need to read what they say. Start with McLaren...maybe "A New Kind of Christianity." I've read several of his books and if you are going "there" then you need to understand what they believe.

I also have a Carson book on the topic (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SEJ17G/?tag=baptis04-20). I found it informative...but you cannot engage another "church" without being more competent in their theology. You'll need to read and understand their views...or take a biblical stance and "as you go, disciple."

 

[JonC]

The Rich Young Ruler, The woman at the well vs. Zachias the tax collector, and Nicodemus. He used law with some, and gave grace to others.

Do you mean that we should use Torah if someone is "proud" and grace if they are not "proud"? I don't really understand your phrase here ("Law to the proud and grace to the humble"). Thanks in advance for explaining it to me.

 

[evangelist6589]

I don't mean read what other people think of Emergent Theology. If you are going to continue, you need to read what they say. Start with McLaren...maybe "A New Kind of Christianity." I've read several of his books and if you are going "there" then you need to understand what they believe.

I also have a Carson book on the topic (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SEJ17G/?tag=baptis04-20). I found it informative...but you cannot engage another "church" without being more competent in their theology. You'll need to read and understand their views...or take a biblical stance and "as you go, disciple."

If my focus was only on that church then perhaps, but since I am engaging a number of different churches I may not. Perhaps my next step is to send letters to some of the New Age Churches in the area (Unity School, etc). I have 2 books on the movement and am more familiar with them. A friend told me there is a ton of these types of churches in the Denver city and was gonna send me a list of a few.

Here are a few
http://www.csldenver.org

http://www.denverunity.org

Thanks a great idea.

PS- I have 2 books on the cults and the Emerging Church is not in neither of them as they are a new breed.

 

[JonC]

If my focus was only on that church then perhaps, but since I am engaging a number of different churches I may not. Perhaps my next step is to send letters to some of the New Age Churches in the area (Unity School, etc). I have 2 books on the movement and am more familiar with them. Thanks a great idea.

You are welcome...now, if you'll pardon me I am going to follow suit and start drinking to forget my failures. Mikes Hard Lemonade...eh? Taste pretty good?

 

[evangelist6589]

You are welcome...now, if you'll pardon me I am going to follow suit and start drinking to forget my failures. Mikes Hard Lemonade...eh? Taste pretty good?

I do not drink for it would be a stumbling block for my wife (Romans). Anyways if you think I need to be more informed on the Emerging church then I will get this Carson book as I see its only selling for a penny.