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Featured The Great blessing of the biblical teaching of Election

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Nov 1, 2014.

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  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    How on earth do you reach that conclusion??? God knows everything in either theology you hold to. He doesn't wait and see what will happen.

    Exactly!

    There is no repeated error, only the straw men you erect. You couldn't address the conundrum, let's see if Tom can....
     
    #141 steaver, Nov 23, 2014
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Because you wrongly understand it does not make a strawman. It just means you oppose truth. Tom butler posted correctly ....you still do not get it. You do not want an answer so you can hold your error. You deny God's omniscience.....you describe a god who knows because he learns something after it happens......not God who causes it to take place and has set His love upon His elect sheep.
     
    #142 Iconoclast, Nov 23, 2014
  3. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Then you cannot read too well. I have repeatedly put forth that God cannot learn anything. Why don't you explain how knowing WHOM is different than knowing WHAT? Seeing how NOTHING existed before God created it. Fact is there is no difference, God knows both, thus Tom's point is moot.
     
    #143 steaver, Nov 24, 2014
  4. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    From The Canons Of Dort (Slight updating of language)

    The First Head of Dctrine regarding Divine Predestination :

    This election was not founded upon foreseen faith, and the obedience of faith, holiness, or any other good quality or disposition in people, as the pre-requisite, cause or condition on which it depended; but people are chosen to faith and to the obedience of faith, holiness, etc., therefore election is the fountain of every saving good; from which proceed faith, holiness, and other gifts of salvation, and finally eternal life itself, as its fruits and effects, according to that of the apostle: "He has chosen us (not because we were) but that we should be holy, and without blame, before him in love." Eph. 1:4
     
    #144 Rippon, Nov 24, 2014
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    :laugh:the whom.......always and of necessity has to come before what they do....Rippon has given an excellent link.....catch your breath and read it slowly.......you say God cannot learn because He knows...good......now stay consistent with that thought in this area if you want to see it
     
    #145 Iconoclast, Nov 24, 2014
  6. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    You make my very point...I stay consistent while Calvinism jumps back and forth. How is it that God can know WHOM in Calvinism before WHOM exist, but God cannot know WHAT in Calvinism before WHAT exist? Which was Tom's objection to this conversation.
     
    #146 steaver, Nov 24, 2014
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    steaver
    You are consistently missing each point:thumbsup: yes, until you really want to learn...you will be locked into consistent error.
    Those holding to Calvinism do not have to Jump back and forth. It is a matter of seeing how all the verses mesh together, God's plan unfolding perfectly in time and eternity, man doing what he does and fully accountable, God doing what he does as absolute sovereign.

    God in or out of Calvinism has an eternal purpose that is perfect, no loose ends as you would propose.
    God being God considered all of mankind as fallen and dead in Adam, then set His love on a multitude in Christ. It is quite simple....read jer 1:5 it is not complicated is it? BEFORE I formed YOU in the womb...I knew you and called you to be a Prophet to the nations....see it steaver???

    .

    Like I said...your objections are random and fragmented.
     
    #147 Iconoclast, Nov 24, 2014
  8. T Alan

    T Alan New Member

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    Jehovah is "eternal" and is not limited to time as we are. Jehovah knew/knows every soul that will ever posses a human body. The Scripture also says Jesus was slain from the foundations of the earth.
     
    #148 T Alan, Nov 24, 2014
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    In a biblical sense....God does not foreknow everyone.

    All he foreknew , he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son. All men are not foreknown biblically.
     
    #149 Iconoclast, Nov 24, 2014
  10. T Alan

    T Alan New Member

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    Foreknow is the intimate knowledge. He FOREKNEW those He predestined. He knew everybody who will ever be.
     
    #150 T Alan, Nov 24, 2014
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    okay...thanks for clarifying:wavey::wavey::wavey:
     
    #151 Iconoclast, Nov 24, 2014
  12. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I'll fix your error for you....

    Those holding to Calvinism have to Jump back and forth. It is a matter of seeing how all the verses mesh together, God's plan unfolding perfectly in time and eternity, man doing what he does and fully accountable, God doing what he does as absolute sovereign.

    :laugh: You chop my objection in two parts and then declare it is fragmented, and go off on something that doesn't even pertain to my objection. Why do Calvinist have to do this? (I already know the answer :tongue3:)
     
    #152 steaver, Nov 26, 2014
  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Amen brother! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: Welcome aboard!
     
    #153 steaver, Nov 26, 2014
  14. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    This thread is closed.
     
    #154 Squire Robertsson, Nov 28, 2014
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