The Great blessing of the biblical teaching of Election

[convicted1]

And if you are , what does that say for your eschatology stance? Like are you now a full blown Covenant Theology practitioner?

--Soteriology...solid five pointer

--Eschatology...amill covenant believer

 

[convicted1]

He has never encounted a bar he didn't like --but every church meets with his distain. He has a thousand excuses. Going beyond 15-20 minutes from his place is such a chore. He needs to humble himself and get with an assembly of believers and stick with them despite his quibbles. Nearly five years of lame excuses is too much. Trust me, there are believing congregations that the Lord has for him --the Primitive Baptists aren't the be-all and end-all.

Not dumping on Brother Steve here...within ten miles of home...

--2 CoC
--3 UB
--1 Seperate Baptist
--3 SBC
--5 FWB
--2 CoG
--Jesus Only...don't know denom
--1 non-denom


ALL of these preach/believe in free will...

My home church is 15-20 miles from home and they are free will in belief. I love my church, too.

 

[convicted1]

Shoot, the hollow I live on...Jennies Creek, there's a non-denom, a Jesus Only, two FWB, a CoG, CoC, UB, and a 1st Baptist, all in about a stretch of 7-8 miles...

 

[Jerome]

every church meets with his distain

distain

Do you sic yourself?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Not dumping on Brother Steve here...within ten miles of home...

--2 CoC
--3 UB
--1 Seperate Baptist
--3 SBC
--5 FWB
--2 CoG
--Jesus Only...don't know denom
--1 non-denom


ALL of these preach/believe in free will...

My home church is 15-20 miles from home and they are free will in belief. I love my church, too.

So much for useless prattling midwives who know nothing about where I live nor do they know my hunt for a good church. :laugh:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

distain

Do you sic yourself?

Mother Goose! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Yeshua1]

Yeshua1

,

ok


Y1...you say this, but I do not believe you....Why????.....you never post any scripture at all...thousands of posts.....[14000]
I think in one post you offer two verses...dozens have asked you for scripture:thumbsup:


This is ignorance here! Do you understand that any one question in any of the confessions offers more scriptures than you have posted in years:wavey:

Don't Maptists hold though to the scriptures ALONE are the revelation of God, the ONLY source of doctrines/practices?

 

[Iconoclast]

Don't Maptists hold though to the scriptures ALONE are the revelation of God, the ONLY source of doctrines/practices?

I'm not sure.....let me check in the confession of faith...which shows what Baptists have believed for hundreds of years-

those who wrote the confession believed this;

Table of Contents | Chapter 2 >

Chapter 1: Of The Holy Scriptures

1. The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience, although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God and his will which is necessary unto salvation. Therefore it pleased the Lord at sundry times and in divers manners to reveal himself, and to declare that his will unto his church; and afterward for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan, and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing; which maketh the Holy Scriptures to be most necessary, those former ways of God's revealing his will unto his people being now ceased.
( 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Isaiah 8:20; Luke 16:29, 31; Ephesians 2:20; Romans 1:19-21; Romans 2:14,15; Psalms 19:1-3; Hebrews 1:1; Proverbs 22:19-21; Romans 15:4; 2 Peter 1:19,20 )

2. Under the name of Holy Scripture, or the Word of God written, are now contained all the books of the Old and New Testaments, which are these:

Of the Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, I Kings, II Kings, I Chronicles, II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, The Song of Solomen, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations,Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi

Of the New Testament: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, The Acts of the Apostles, Paul's Epistle to the Romans, I Corinthians, II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, I Thessalonians, II Thessalonians, I Timothy, II Timothy, To Titus, To Philemon, The Epistle to the Hebrews, Epistle of James, The first and second Epistles of Peter, The first, second, and third Epistles of John, The Epistle of Jude, The Revelation

All of which are given by the inspiration of God, to be the rule of faith and life.
( 2 Timothy 3:16)

3. The books commonly called Apocrypha, not being of divine inspiration, are no part of the canon or rule of the Scripture, and, therefore, are of no authority to the church of God, nor to be any otherwise approved or made use of than other human writings.
( Luke 24:27, 44; Romans 3:2 )

4. The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, dependeth not upon the testimony of any man or church, but wholly upon God (who is truth itself), the author thereof; therefore it is to be received because it is the Word of God.
( 2 Peter 1:19-21; 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 John 5:9 )

5. We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the church of God to an high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scriptures; and the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, and the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole (which is to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, and many other incomparable excellencies, and entire perfections thereof, are arguments whereby it doth abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God; yet notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth, and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts.
( John 16:13,14; 1 Corinthians 2:10-12; 1 John 2:20, 27)

6. The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down or necessarily contained in the Holy Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelation of the Spirit, or traditions of men. Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word, and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed.
( 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Galatians 1:8,9; John 6:45; 1 Corinthians 2:9-12; 1 Corinthians 11:13, 14; 1 Corinthians 14:26,40)

7. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all; yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed and observed for salvation, are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of ordinary means, may attain to a sufficient understanding of them.
( 2 Peter 3:16; Psalms 19:7; Psalms 119:130)

8. The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which at the time of the writing of it was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and by his singular care and providence kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentic; so as in all controversies of religion, the church is finally to appeal to them. But because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have a right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded in the fear of God to read and search them, therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come, that the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship him in an acceptable manner, and through patience and comfort of the Scriptures may have hope.
( Romans 3:2; Isaiah 8:20; Acts 15:15; John 5:39; 1 Corinthians 14:6, 9, 11, 12, 24, 28; Colossians 3:16 )

9. The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself; and therefore when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched by other places that speak more clearly.
( 2 Peter 1:20, 21; Acts 15:15, 16)

10. The supreme judge, by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Scripture delivered by the Spirit, into which Scripture so delivered, our faith is finally resolved.
( Matthew 22:29, 31, 32; Ephesians 2:20; Acts 28:23)

Let me know if you could improve upon this statement. read this statement and then re-read what you posted.

 

[steaver]

Both you and Icon have castigated me for going into bars to bring the word to sinners, you both have criticized me and others (PB 's) for their views.....from my prospective, how dare you.

Ah...no. Nobody scorned you for going into the bars to bring the Word to sinners. The way you presented your case was that you go into the bars because you enjoyed the atmosphere and the drink, and IF an opportunity came along to speak on behalf of Christ you spoke up.

To me that is not going to the bars to witness to sinners. That is going for self gratification and then IF an opportunity just happens to present itself, well then you will witness, that is not going there seeking out the sinner.

Remember, God judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart, so it matters not what I think, we ALL have our own JSoC to attend, we won't have to convince God of our true motives in any of our actions. You know why you go there, God knows why you go there, I only know what you tell me as to why you go there. My judgment may be flawed, I'm just going by what you told me.

Prov9:8 - "Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee."

 

[steaver]

Alright Brother Steaver....neither of us will get anywhere using the demeanor BOTH of us have used on here. Soooo, let us start afresh....


Hello Steaver. My name is Willis Fletcher, Jr., but people on here know me as "convicted1". It appears you and I have differing views in regards to election. Now, what are you views considering...


--Election?
--The elect?
--The fall of Adam?
--Of Adam's posterity?


Brother, please, let's be civil, and give me your views on these subjects, and we'll start over, deal? :saint:

Sorry brother Willis, I'm not starting over with you. We pretty much covered it all. I believe your quote I use in my signature field is what helped sealed the deal for me, even though I was pretty much convinced that Calvinism was flawed. And it is an honest quote from a Calvinistic POV. The Spirit has not allowed me to reach such a conclusion concerning God.

You may believe you read such a thing in the Scriptures, I have been reading the same Scriptures you have for 18 years now and I do not see what you see. I actually find it quite sad and I have prayed to God about your quote even, even asking Him if this be so please make me see it, and rather than seeing it, a heavy sense of sadness presses upon me and I absolutely believe it is the Holy Spirit convicting me that it is not truth. Maybe you should pray the Spirit convinces me that your quote is truth...we'll see what happens.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ah...no. Nobody scorned you for going into the bars to bring the Word to sinners. The way you presented your case was that you go into the bars because you enjoyed the atmosphere and the drink, and IF an opportunity came along to speak on behalf of Christ you spoke up.

To me that is not going to the bars to witness to sinners. That is going for self gratification and then IF an opportunity just happens to present itself, well then you will witness, that is not going there seeking out the sinner.

Remember, God judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart, so it matters not what I think, we ALL have our own JSoC to attend, we won't have to convince God of our true motives in any of our actions. You know why you go there, God knows why you go there, I only know what you tell me as to why you go there. My judgment may be flawed, I'm just going by what you told me.

Prov9:8 - "Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee."

I guess I'm the third type:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Sorry brother Willis, I'm not starting over with you. We pretty much covered it all. I believe your quote I use in my signature field is what helped sealed the deal for me, even though I was pretty much convinced that Calvinism was flawed. And it is an honest quote from a Calvinistic POV. The Spirit has not allowed me to reach such a conclusion concerning God.

You may believe you read such a thing in the Scriptures, I have been reading the same Scriptures you have for 18 years now and I do not see what you see. I actually find it quite sad and I have prayed to God about your quote even, even asking Him if this be so please make me see it, and rather than seeing it, a heavy sense of sadness presses upon me and I absolutely believe it is the Holy Spirit convicting me that it is not truth. Maybe you should pray the Spirit convinces me that your quote is truth...we'll see what happens.

Could be the devil blinding you also.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[steaver]

Could be the devil blinding you also.:smilewinkgrin:

According to the Calvinist model, you would be absolutely correct. In that model the only way I can believe truth and that Calvinism is truth is if the Holy Spirit makes me believe it is so. So all of their arguments trying to convince others is really futile and a huge waste of time. Same goes for witnessing Christ to the lost, no need to go on and on trying to persuade, just give them the gospel and either the Holy Spirit will zap them to believe or He won't. Pleading and praying is futile and coming up with arguments is simply a waste of time.

 

[convicted1]

Sorry brother Willis, I'm not starting over with you. We pretty much covered it all. I believe your quote I use in my signature field is what helped sealed the deal for me, even though I was pretty much convinced that Calvinism was flawed. And it is an honest quote from a Calvinistic POV. The Spirit has not allowed me to reach such a conclusion concerning God.

You may believe you read such a thing in the Scriptures, I have been reading the same Scriptures you have for 18 years now and I do not see what you see. I actually find it quite sad and I have prayed to God about your quote even, even asking Him if this be so please make me see it, and rather than seeing it, a heavy sense of sadness presses upon me and I absolutely believe it is the Holy Spirit convicting me that it is not truth. Maybe you should pray the Spirit convinces me that your quote is truth...we'll see what happens.

I offered....

 

[Rippon]

Nobody scorned you for going into the bars to bring the Word to sinners. The way you presented your case was that you go into the bars because you enjoyed the atmosphere and the drink, and IF an opportunity came along to speak on behalf of Christ you spoke up.

To me that is not going to the bars to witness to sinners. That is going for self gratification and then IF an opportunity just happens to present itself, well then you will witness, that is not going there seeking out the sinner.

You know why you go there, God knows why you go there, I only know what you tell me as to why you go there. My judgment may be flawed, I'm just going by what you told me.

Prov9:8 - "Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee."

Perfectly said Steaver.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

According to the Calvinist model, you would be absolutely correct. In that model the only way I can believe truth and that Calvinism is truth is if the Holy Spirit makes me believe it is so. So all of their arguments trying to convince others is really futile and a huge waste of time. Same goes for witnessing Christ to the lost, no need to go on and on trying to persuade, just give them the gospel and either the Holy Spirit will zap them to believe or He won't. Pleading and praying is futile and coming up with arguments is simply a waste of time.

So why then does Willis attempt to have dialog with you? Willis identifies as a Calvinist. You are just a bitter man....one who cant see beyond this Calvinist & non Calvinist crap so you have your own little agenda...ie to proove them wrong and thus free the world of this Calvinist scourge that you have congered up in your mind....and you really get a kick out of it don't you, sitting up there on your high horse surveying the world according to you. You know what...it is funny too when you think of it.....in your zeal to prove them mistaken in their pov, you have become quite like them....they also look down their noses at those who aren't them.

So here is what I suggest you do Steve (cause frankly I don't think your that far gone) get down on your hands and knees and repent and then put two of these clowns on ignore. Then go out and seek out people who need the love of Christ...and feed them. Maybe start by showing them Christs love, showing them a living God who loves them and is there for them, one who is working in the lives of sinners. And when you look in their eyes, try to see Christ staring back.....then you will have touched the flesh and found Christ where he lives....not on some stupid opinion board.

"The Word Dwells Among Us" In the poor, in the hope of the unemployed, in the courage of the oppressed, in the presence of each other.

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm not sure.....let me check in the confession of faith...which shows what Baptists have believed for hundreds of years-

those who wrote the confession believed this;



Let me know if you could improve upon this statement. read this statement and then re-read what you posted.

I belkieve that ONLY the Bible is infallible and a divine revelation from God to us, as he spoke through them and used them to grow His own up in the faith way before there wewre any Confessions of the faith!

 

[Iconoclast]

I belkieve that ONLY the Bible is infallible and a divine revelation from God to us, as he spoke through them and used them to grow His own up in the faith way before there wewre any Confessions of the faith!

Yes.....that being said.....so did all who wrote the confession of faith...and all who use them.

So in reality your statement changes nothing. YOU NEVER post the scripture you say you believe should be used.
Instead of scripture you say.........I think that.....or it seems to me.

I asked you a direct question. Can you improve upon any of the statements in the confession written by men who also believe as posted that the scriptures are the only infallible rule of faith and practice?

 

[convicted1]

Yesh,

None are saying the WCF or LBCF are infallible like the holy word of God. But they're a framework, a guide to what they/we believe.

 

[steaver]

I'm not sure.....let me check in the confession of faith...which shows what Baptists have believed for hundreds of years-

those who wrote the confession believed this;

Let me know if you could improve upon this statement. read this statement and then re-read what you posted.

Do you see this confession as having anything to do with whether or not Calvinism is truth? I read through the confession and nothing jumped out at me that I would say I don't agree with although I don't agree with Calvinism.