yes sir!!!!
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The Great blessing of the biblical teaching of Election
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yes sir!!!!
for those who do not mind reading...here is yet another;
Verse 14. He will shew them his covenant, or and he will make them to know (for the infinitive is here thought to be put for the future tense of the indicative, as it is in Ecclesiastes 3:14-15 Ecclesiastes 3:18 Hosea 9:13 12:3, his covenant, i.e.,) he will make them clearly understand it, both its duties or conditions, and its blessings or privileges; neither of which ungodly men rightly understand. Or, he will make them to know it by experience, or by God's making it good to them; as, on the contrary, God threatens to make ungodly men to know his breach of promise. Numbers 14:34 . Or, as it is in the margins of our Bibles, and his covenant, (is i.e., he hath engaged himself by his promise or covenant) to make them know it, to wit, his secret, i.e., that he will manifest either his word or his favour to them. Matthew Poole.
Verse 14. It is neither learning nor labour than can give insight into God's secrets, those Arcana imperii, "The mysteries of the kingdom of heaven." Mt 13:11. "The mind of Christ." 1 Corinthians 2:16 . These things come by revelation rather than by discourse of reason, and must therefore be obtained by prayer. Those that diligently seek him shall be of his Cabinet Council, shall know his soul secrets, and be admitted into a gracious familiarity and friendship. "Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth; but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you." John 15:15 . John Trapp.
Verse 14. Walking with God is the best way to know the mind of God; friends who walk together impart their secrets one to another: "The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him." Noah walked with God, and the Lord revealed a great secret to him, of destroying the old world, and having him in the ark. Abraham walked with God, and God made him one of his privy council: "Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do?" Genesis 24:40 18:17. God doth sometimes sweetly unbosom himself to the soul in prayer, and in the holy supper, as Christ made himself known to his disciples in the breaking of bread. Luke 24:35 . Thomas Watson.
Verse 14. He will shew them his covenant, or and he will make them to know (for the infinitive is here thought to be put for the future tense of the indicative, as it is in Ecclesiastes 3:14-15 Ecclesiastes 3:18 Hosea 9:13 12:3, his covenant, i.e.,) he will make them clearly understand it, both its duties or conditions, and its blessings or privileges; neither of which ungodly men rightly understand. Or, he will make them to know it by experience, or by God's making it good to them; as, on the contrary, God threatens to make ungodly men to know his breach of promise. Numbers 14:34 . Or, as it is in the margins of our Bibles, and his covenant, (is i.e., he hath engaged himself by his promise or covenant) to make them know it, to wit, his secret, i.e., that he will manifest either his word or his favour to them. Matthew Poole.
Verse 14. It is neither learning nor labour than can give insight into God's secrets, those Arcana imperii, "The mysteries of the kingdom of heaven." Mt 13:11. "The mind of Christ." 1 Corinthians 2:16 . These things come by revelation rather than by discourse of reason, and must therefore be obtained by prayer. Those that diligently seek him shall be of his Cabinet Council, shall know his soul secrets, and be admitted into a gracious familiarity and friendship. "Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth; but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you." John 15:15 . John Trapp.
Verse 14. Walking with God is the best way to know the mind of God; friends who walk together impart their secrets one to another: "The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him." Noah walked with God, and the Lord revealed a great secret to him, of destroying the old world, and having him in the ark. Abraham walked with God, and God made him one of his privy council: "Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do?" Genesis 24:40 18:17. God doth sometimes sweetly unbosom himself to the soul in prayer, and in the holy supper, as Christ made himself known to his disciples in the breaking of bread. Luke 24:35 . Thomas Watson.
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Here the author pulls the "bait and switch". He begins with declaring God does not make any decision based upon a foreseen faith, and then switches the message to foreseen good works. Faith is not a work, if it were, even the Calvinist would be promoting a work based religion.
Read the quote again...you have missed it
because a choice founded upon the foresight of good works is just as truly made on the ground of works as any choice can be, and in such a case it would not be "of grace"; for, says the Apostle, "if by grace, then it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace
What did I miss? He started speaking about faith and then switched to good works. What are you missing?
You missed what he was teaching as well as the whole doctrine. Steaver I cannot read everything for you....try hooked on phonics...or read slow and actually try and understand what is being taught....even if it is not what you hold to now.....:wavey:
Typical Calvinist response. sad.......
What can I say steaver.....you read and misunderstand the whole quote. If you understood it, you would be closer to truth. Each time you are offered that which will help you, you just dismiss it because you cannot understand it.
Did you notice ....no one else questioned the quote?
Did you notice....everyone goes into hiding when these quotes are posted?
:thumbsup
id you notice that all manner of statements are made early in the post, then when they are responded to, the poster disappears?:thumbsup:
You are wrong Steve.....these are typical Iconoclast responses so don't bring Calvinists into it. If the two of you have issues either resolve them or agree to disagree.
John Murray
The doctrine of limited atonement any more than the doctrine of sovereign election does not raise a fence around the offer of the gospel. The overture of the gospel offering peace and salvation through Jesus Christ is to all without distinction, though it is truly from the heart of sovereign election and limited atonement that this stream of grace universally proffered flows.
The difference is just this. The Calvinist affirms that God eternally and unchangeably decrees the salvation of certain persons whom He sovereignly distinguishes by this decree from those who are not appointed to salvation. In pursuance of this decree of salvation He decrees the ends towards its accomplishment, and so decrees to give faith and perseverance to all those predestinated to salvation. The Arminian denies any such decree bearing upon the salvation of individuals, and what he affirms in its place is that God decrees or purposes to save all who believe and persevere in faith and obedience to the end. In the former case there is the eternal destination to salvation of persons who are the objects of God’s sovereign election; in the latter case there is the divine purpose to save the class characterized by faith and perseverance. In the ultimate analysis the former is the election of persons, the latter is the election of qualities with the provision that all who exhibit these qualities will be saved.
The doctrine of limited atonement any more than the doctrine of sovereign election does not raise a fence around the offer of the gospel. The overture of the gospel offering peace and salvation through Jesus Christ is to all without distinction, though it is truly from the heart of sovereign election and limited atonement that this stream of grace universally proffered flows.
The difference is just this. The Calvinist affirms that God eternally and unchangeably decrees the salvation of certain persons whom He sovereignly distinguishes by this decree from those who are not appointed to salvation. In pursuance of this decree of salvation He decrees the ends towards its accomplishment, and so decrees to give faith and perseverance to all those predestinated to salvation. The Arminian denies any such decree bearing upon the salvation of individuals, and what he affirms in its place is that God decrees or purposes to save all who believe and persevere in faith and obedience to the end. In the former case there is the eternal destination to salvation of persons who are the objects of God’s sovereign election; in the latter case there is the divine purpose to save the class characterized by faith and perseverance. In the ultimate analysis the former is the election of persons, the latter is the election of qualities with the provision that all who exhibit these qualities will be saved.
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John Murray again;
The hallmark of Calvinism is unconditional election and that is exactly what this highest type of Arminianism vigorously denies. It professes indeed fixed and unchangeable election of individuals. But what is meant is, that, since God decrees to save all who believe and since He knows perfectly beforehand and from eternity who will believe, He on the basis of that foresight as ground and cause elects these individuals to eternal life. God elects all whom He foresees will believe and persevere to the end. His election then is determined by His foresight of some difference that comes to exist among men, a difference which He Himself does not cause but which in the final analysis is due to sovereign choice on the part of the human will. The determining factor in this type of election then is not the sovereign unconditioned good pleasure of God but the decision of the human will which God from eternity foresees. Election is not the source of faith, but faith foreseen is made the source or condition of election.On close examination it should be evident that this is not divine election at all. The sovereign determination of God is ruled out at the vital point, for the ultimate determinant of the discrimination that exists among men is made to be something in men and not the sovereign good pleasure of God. Indeed this type of Arminianism that at first appears to approach so closely to the Reformed position only serves to show more clearly the total difference between the two systems. The election taught in the Reformed Church is election to salvation and eternal life and therefore also to faith and all other graces as the means ordained of God to the accomplishment of His sovereign decree. Election is not then conditioned upon faith, but faith is the fruit of election. God sovereignly works faith in men because He has in His eternal counsel appointed them to salvation. Faith is not the logical prius of election, but election is the eternal prius and source of faith. Arminianism at its best denies all of these propositions.
The denial of unconditional election strikes at the heart of the doctrine of the grace of God. The grace of God is absolutely sovereign and every failure to recognize and appreciate the absolute sovereignty of God in His saving grace is an expression of the pride of the human heart. It rests upon the demand that God can deal differently with men in the matter of salvation only because they have made themselves to differ. In its ultimate elements it means that the determining factor in salvation is what man himself does, and that is just tantamount to saying that it is not God who determines the salvation of men, but men determine their own salvation; it is not God who saves but man saves himself. This is precisely the issue.
The hallmark of Calvinism is unconditional election and that is exactly what this highest type of Arminianism vigorously denies. It professes indeed fixed and unchangeable election of individuals. But what is meant is, that, since God decrees to save all who believe and since He knows perfectly beforehand and from eternity who will believe, He on the basis of that foresight as ground and cause elects these individuals to eternal life. God elects all whom He foresees will believe and persevere to the end. His election then is determined by His foresight of some difference that comes to exist among men, a difference which He Himself does not cause but which in the final analysis is due to sovereign choice on the part of the human will. The determining factor in this type of election then is not the sovereign unconditioned good pleasure of God but the decision of the human will which God from eternity foresees. Election is not the source of faith, but faith foreseen is made the source or condition of election.On close examination it should be evident that this is not divine election at all. The sovereign determination of God is ruled out at the vital point, for the ultimate determinant of the discrimination that exists among men is made to be something in men and not the sovereign good pleasure of God. Indeed this type of Arminianism that at first appears to approach so closely to the Reformed position only serves to show more clearly the total difference between the two systems. The election taught in the Reformed Church is election to salvation and eternal life and therefore also to faith and all other graces as the means ordained of God to the accomplishment of His sovereign decree. Election is not then conditioned upon faith, but faith is the fruit of election. God sovereignly works faith in men because He has in His eternal counsel appointed them to salvation. Faith is not the logical prius of election, but election is the eternal prius and source of faith. Arminianism at its best denies all of these propositions.
The denial of unconditional election strikes at the heart of the doctrine of the grace of God. The grace of God is absolutely sovereign and every failure to recognize and appreciate the absolute sovereignty of God in His saving grace is an expression of the pride of the human heart. It rests upon the demand that God can deal differently with men in the matter of salvation only because they have made themselves to differ. In its ultimate elements it means that the determining factor in salvation is what man himself does, and that is just tantamount to saying that it is not God who determines the salvation of men, but men determine their own salvation; it is not God who saves but man saves himself. This is precisely the issue.
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You are absolutely correct! I apologize to all Calvinist, it has nothing to do with following the theology, it is a personal heart issue.
Blessings!
What can I say steaver.....you read and misunderstand the whole quote. If you understood it, you would be closer to truth. Each time you are offered that which will help you, you just dismiss it because you cannot understand it.
Did you notice ....no one else questioned the quote?
Did you notice....everyone goes into hiding when these quotes are posted?
:thumbsup
Yes, you have it all figured out :thumbs:. You could be the first Apostle born since the NT era. You should get all your post published and distributed out along with all bible sales. Then, as long as everyone sees the perfect truth in all your words, we can all be of one accord. You must feel pretty good about your coming rewards at the JSoC, having perfect doctrine and perfect truth, you won't have any wood, hay or stubble to be burned up! Keep up the great work! :wavey:
steaver ;you have it all figured out . You could be the first Apostle born since the NT era. You should get all your post published and distributed out along with all bible sales. Then said:
One thing for certain you are so confused I can't help but feel sorry for you because you have been so misguided...
MB
convicted1
Guest
What does election have to do with replacement theology? Where did the topic "replacement theology" even get interjected into this conversation? None have mentioned it, so why do you feel that what I espoused has an inkling to do with replacement theology?God chose a multitude from a fallen race to give to His Son. He did this...election...from, or before, the foundation of the world. He gave them to His Son, and He in turn, took their sins upon Himself, and paid their debt for them, seeing they were unable to do so. This election, and furthermore, the elect, wasn't solely the Jews. God chose the Jews to further the gospel, and to bring the elect's Messiah, Saviour, High Priest, through this Jewish lineage.
convicted1
Guest
MB,
To further this discussion and better understand where you're coming from, in your opinion, who are the elect?
To further this discussion and better understand where you're coming from, in your opinion, who are the elect?
Asking specifics is one thing, getting MB to answer an honest question will entail some skirting of the issue.
His possible responses:
1) A made-up Calvinist doctrine. It can't be found in the Bible.
2) Calvinists think only Calvinists are the elect.
3) Jews are the only elect in the Bible.
4) Election has nothing to do with salvation.
5) The doctrine only causes friction, so I don't even talk about it except when those arrogant Calvinists go on and on about it.
____________________________________________________
He might actually have a reply with a combination of some of the above. Go for it MB. Prove me wrong.
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