Featured Baptism and Regeneration of the Spirit

Again, you are side stepping the obvious contradictions in your system of thought. Why not answer the questions? However, if you can't answer the questions, I will answer yours.

No, not all believers will be in the Bride. There are those guests (Rev. 19:8-9). There are the ""saved" nations (Rev. 21:24) existing outside the new Jerusalem on the new earth (Rev. 21:1-2) AFTER the Great White Seat Judgement (Rev. 20). So no, not all believers will be in the city which is named in honor of the bride just as the city in Revelation 17:18 is named in honor of the Great Whore. Furthmore, not all in the city will be the Bride, as redeemed Israel (12 Tribes) dwells there in addition to the church (12 Apostles). So no, not all believers will be in the Bride.

 

The text does not say "first to reveal" but rather he "SET IN" the church first apostles. This is not a list giving the order of who the church was revealed unto.

That is not the order given in either Ephesians 2:20 or 1 Corinthains 12:28. Indeed, the order in 1 Cor. 12:28 forbids that interpretation as all that are listing following "first" are New Testament offices and gifts.

The apostles and prophets provided the INSPIRED scripture for church policy - the New Testament Scriptures.

I believe these are representations of the two houses of God and two covenant administrations - the bride of the Father - Israel and the bride of the Son -the church.

 

It makes no sense. If the prophets were Old Testament prophets, then how was that "revealed" to them and then how were the "set" in the church??? Nothing in this list has any application to anyone in the Old Testament. Sorry, but it says "set" not "revealed." Your interpretation is mere fancy without fact.

 

The events listed in Revelation 21-22:3 are precisely located not only after them millennium and great White throne Judgement but after the new heavens and earth are created (Rev. 21:1-2). So there is no exegetical basis to place Revelation 21:24 back in the millennium prior to the Great White Seat Judgement. That is mere fancy and completely contrary to the contextual time frame that is clearly and precisely stated.

 

Your response makes no sense. 1 Corinthians 12:28 explicitly states that the prophets were "set in" the church 'SECONDLY"! However, you quote Isaiah 9:6,7 which would reveal and set them in FIRST before the apostles ever existed. Furthermore, every item listed in 1 Cor. 12:28 is New Testament in origin.

You have the building built before the foundation is laid (Eph. 2:20) which is contrary to the proper use of metaphors. Your interpretations are FORCED and UNNATURAL and mere fancy without a shred of exegetical fact.

However, the Biblical order fits this chronological order in 1 Cor. 12:28 exactly:

1. Apostles set first in the Church - Lk. 6:12; Mark. 3:12-13; Acts 1:15-21
2. Prophets - Acts 11
3. Prophets and teachers - Acts 13

Moreover, if the numerical order is one of priority of importance rather than numerical order than "secondarily" prophets must refer to New Testament Prophets as both Apostles and New Testament prophets based their teachings and writings and authenticity upon Old Testament prophets (1 Jn. 4:1) as the test of any new prophetic revelation was to be consistent with previous propehtic confirmed writings.

The consistent order is first apostles and secondarily Prophets:

1. Eph. 2:20
2. Eph. 4:11
3. I Cor. 12:28

I Corinthians 12:28 is referring to the "church" as an institution and the proper priorities God has placed upon offices and gifts in the worship service. The Apostolic and prophetic offices furnished New Testament revelation/scripture and therefore provided the metaphorical "foundation" making the institutional church "the pillar and ground of the truth." Hence, New Testament Revelation or inspired writings from New Testament apostles and prophets were regarded as more important than the other gifted men and revelatory gifts.

 

The "saved nations" in Revelation 21:24 are found OUTSIDE on the NEW earth which "new" earth was not created (Rev. 21:1-2) until AFTER the Great White Judgement throne (Rev. 20:12-17) and therefore cannot refer to the millennium or the Jews (Rev. 20:4-7). It is also distinguished from the 12 tribes in Revelation 21 as the 12 gates of the city are represented by the twelve tribes while these "saved nations" are OUTSIDE the city. My point is that all the saved do not constitute the bride or body of Christ in Revelation 21-22 as you have demanded and your theory of the bride demands. You have no sound exegetical basis for your theory, just fancy without facts. The facts contradict your theory.

 

I don't think you are being reasonable with 1 Cor. 12:28 and "secondarily prophets." So let's go on to the above objection that I make against your theory.

Tell me how pre-Pentecost believers in Christ were added to the "body of Christ" or "bride" without the baptism in the Spirit? Every theologian that holds your theory demands that either it is regeneration or baptism in the Spirit that provides the mechanism for placing believers into this theory of the Body of Christ.

You claim John the Baptist and all previous believers were placed in the "body of Christ" and will be in "the bride" but the baptism in the Spirit did not occur until Pentecost and you deny regeneration occurred before Pentecost, so please tell me the mechanism used by God to place anyone into this mystical body previous to Pentecost.

Of course my position is that not all believers are in the "body of Christ." The metaphorical "body" is nothing more than the local congregational body considered either in its concrete reality such as the "churches" or "the church which is at..." Or in the institutional sense (1 Cor. 12:28) and consists of nothing but water baptized professed believers. I believe the future metaphorical "bride" is made up of those water baptized believers who have remained faithful to their congregational calling (2 Cor. 11:2-4; Rev. 19:6-7) while all other believers make up the "saved nations" outside of the city or the metaphorical bride of the Father - true believing ethnic Israel.

But don't distract the issue by turning to my position and making it the issue. Please answer my objections to your position first as I only provided my position to keep you from ignoring your problems by turning and asking what I believed.

 

Again, as far as I can tell by reading your response you completely ignored what I asked you to specifically address, and addressed what I specifically asked you not to address. Shall we try again?

 

The Vride of Christ is His Body, His one true Church, so that all of them who wwere saved from the time of Jesus ministry foeward will be included in that group, while the OT believers will be part of the Kingdom of God, but not as part of the Church of Christ...

The new Covenant really was FAR superior to the Old One, as the saved under the first one did not have the experience of being :born again: as to all of them, as that was done to the ceratin ones that had official roles such as the prophets/priests/and kings of israel and Judah...

 

You have been provided specific Biblical evidence that your position is simply wrong and how do you respond? You ignore the Biblical evidence and simply repeat like a parrot what has been totally disproven. Shall we try again, and this time deal with the evidence against your theory???

The Evidence:

1. "Saved nations" not in the Bride, not part of Israel as Israel is represented by "Twelve tribes" - Rev. 21:24

2. Guests at the marriage suppers are not the Bride, not Jews, not angels - Rev. 19:8-9 - but other spiritual virgins - Psa. 45

3. The terms "body" and "head" are metaphors and neither refer to any kind of spiritual union or in any context of salvation but always in context of sanctification and in relationship of "authority" under which unified service occurs.

4. The term "church" never used for anything other than the congregational body of water baptized believers (1 Cor. 12:27) always found in a concrete sense or institutional sense. Jesus uses the term 23 times and after using it the first time for what he would build as an institution the next 22 times are obviously the concrete sense of a local visible body of water baptized believers - that is the evidence.

5. The church is not the kingdom but is given the keys "of the kingdom" and is the administrative body in the kingdom.

6. Old Covenant never saved anyone but many saved prior to Pentecost by new birth (Jn. 3:3-5) circumcised in heart, given a new heart, etc.

7. The Baptism in the Spirit is never mentioned in connection with any INDIVDUAL but always in connection with only WATER BAPTIZED BELIEVERS as a congregational body.

8. The Universal invisible church/bride theory is the professing kingdom of God in Matthew 13 not the church of God.

 

Regeneration is only one part of the equation. The Baptism in the Spirit is the major part. The Baptism in the Spirit is both time restricted and geographically restricted by Acts 1:4-5. The time is "not many days hence" and the geographically restriction is "Jerusalem."

Now, the question is how does Pre-Pentecost saints find entrance into spiritual union with Christ prior to the baptism in the Spirit?