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Is it EVER OK to lie?

Discussion in 'Polls Forum' started by Jedi Knight, Dec 28, 2014.

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Is it EVER OK to lie?

  1. Yes

    4 vote(s)
    28.6%

  2. No

    8 vote(s)
    57.1%

  3. Not sure

    2 vote(s)
    14.3%
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  1. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight Well-Known Member
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    Black Belt & Butcher too?
     
    #21 Jedi Knight, Dec 29, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2014
  2. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight Well-Known Member
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    Well she really needed you around to instruct her.
     
    #22 Jedi Knight, Dec 29, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2014
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    :laugh: I wouldn't stoop low enough to start that thread. But it is essentially the same question...is it ever OK to (fill in a sin).
     
    #23 JonC, Dec 29, 2014
  4. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight Well-Known Member
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    That's a relief.
     
    #24 Jedi Knight, Dec 29, 2014
  5. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight Well-Known Member
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    #25 Jedi Knight, Dec 29, 2014
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    She used gentleness, which is very effective against wrath as the Bible says. Also very effective is a witness for Christ. Then you have the Holy Spirit on your side and the crook starts feeling very uncomfortable and vulnerable.

    I have documented cases in my files where a witness for Christ tamed an escaped, violent prisoner in one case, and a murderer who had just murdered and then kidnapped a Christian in another case. In no case was lying necessary, but the power of God was sufficient for the trusting Christian.
     
    #26 John of Japan, Dec 29, 2014
  7. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight Well-Known Member
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    I have scriptural cases in my Bible. Josh. 2; 6:22–25 Heb. 11:31
     
    #27 Jedi Knight, Dec 29, 2014
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  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The lie in Sproul's example was not to save the children (this was accomplished through righteous disobedience). The midwives lied to save or excuse themselves (giving a reason when questioned why they disobeyed). It is a poor example (Sproul has several).
     
    #28 JonC, Dec 29, 2014
  9. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight Well-Known Member
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    I'm sure anyone who disagrees with you is a poor example.
     
    #29 Jedi Knight, Dec 29, 2014
  10. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight Well-Known Member
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    "Did those who hid Jews from the Nazis sin when they told the gestapo no one was hiding in the basement?" Reasonable question.....would you lie to protect them or say "I cannot tell a lie"?
     
    #30 Jedi Knight, Dec 29, 2014
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  11. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight Well-Known Member
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    So you call it a sin but justify doing it anyways?
     
    #31 Jedi Knight, Dec 29, 2014
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Generally....yes. :thumbs:

    (BTW...I didn't mean Sproul is a poor examples, what I meant was that it is not uncommon to find flaws in his examples).
     
    #32 JonC, Dec 29, 2014
  13. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight Well-Known Member
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    BTW Webdog cover that right off the Bat so you should have not be so absurd.....maybe read before react.
     
    #33 Jedi Knight, Dec 29, 2014
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Webdog offered many examples, some were not lies (e.g., Jesus not revealing Himself). Right of the bat, I say sin is always wrong, and lying is a sin. The example of justifying adultery was not a serious suggestion but was to illustrate (unsuccessfully) the implications of picking and choosing which sins can be right when ever it serves a purpose.
     
    #34 JonC, Dec 29, 2014
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  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    The revealing was not what I was referring to. How about the men asking Jesus f He knew what had happened that weekend and His reply? How about Him pretending as if He was to go further when He intended to go with them?
     
    #35 webdog, Dec 29, 2014
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  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I thought the subject was lying. Or are you insisting that Jesus did indeed lie?
     
    #36 JonC, Dec 29, 2014
  17. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    1. On the road to Emmaus he pretended as if he was going further knowing he was going to stay with the men for a while.

    2. God called the hiding of the Israelite spies a righteous act. She lied to hide them, it's a fact.

    3. I already touched on Samuel. Just because he ended up making a sacrifice it was NOT the reason for going. It would be like me stepping out the front door when a bill collector called and instructing my wife to tell them I "stepped out". The actual act doesn't negate the intent.

    4. Jonathan lied to his armour bearer about the location of his shot arrow as a signal to David.

    5. David's answer to the high priest when on the run from Saul?

    Enough examples to show deception is not always sinful.
     
    #37 webdog, Dec 29, 2014
  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    isnt deception lying? When the men asked him if he knew what was going on do you honestly think Jesus didn't?

    How about an all knowing God telling Hezekiah he was going to die and then not following through? I hear here all the time God cannot change His mind. Which is it?
     
    #38 webdog, Dec 29, 2014
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  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Are you talking about deception as in not being completely forthcoming or are you talking of lying?

    Some of your examples are of people not being forthcoming (or perhaps examples of inference rather than implication). Scripture is actually rich with warnings for people to hold their tongue and keep the peace, to exercise discretion, etc. Others examples that you offer, I admit, have been lies, but there is no justification in Scripture for the actual lie. But we disagree (probably in definition as well as in application) and so be it.

    Is lying the only sin that is wrong or right depending on the situation (are there examples of other sins that fit into this category)?
     
    #39 JonC, Dec 29, 2014
  20. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    According to Machiavelli lying and deceiving are noble acts. Especially when politicians do it.
     
    #40 poncho, Dec 29, 2014
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