Is it EVER OK to lie?

[JonC]

You are doing the very thing you are accusing me of. You are elevating your understanding to include what you want it to say. The Bible also says do not kill, so using your reasoning, the death penalty is wrong not to mention the many instances where God commanded people to be killed.

Nothing to do with my understanding...if Scripture says it is a sin then it is a sin. The Bible says not to murder. Murder is therefore always wrong...always a sin (even when I lean towards it being justifiable or understandable). If the death penalty qualifies as "murder" then it is a sin. The Bible says that lying is a sin. Your objection does not alter that fact.

 

[John of Japan]

take a stab at it, what are the five actions?

My obvious point is that they are separate actions. You can't lump them all together.

Your obvious point is that the lie in those actions did good. I disagree. There were other ways the situation could have been handled.

Furthermore, there is nothing in the text whatsoever that says the lie was warranted. Lying is wrong. The Scripture is very clear about that. No one has yet given me a single Scripture other than narratives to prove that it is sometimes okay to lie. No one has even given me Scripture saying the lying in the narratives was okay.

 

[Jedi Knight]

No one has even given me Scripture saying the lying in the narratives was okay.

What about Trinity.....haven't found that one ether but nonetheless vola!

 

[John of Japan]

What about Trinity.....haven't found that one ether but nonetheless vola!

(1) We do not determine the doctrine of the trinity through Biblical narrative but through plain Biblical teaching.

(2) The doctrine of the trinity is clear through numerous passages. However, the idea that it is sometimes okay to lie (a form of situation ethics) occurs nowhere in Scripture in a declarative or imperative statement or in any other form. The only tack a proponent can take is the narratives already mentioned here on this thread--and none of them have a statement approving of all the actions of the people involved.

 

[Jedi Knight]

the idea that it is sometimes okay to lie (a form of situation ethics) occurs nowhere in Scripture in a declarative or imperative statement or in any other form

Then skip of Hebrews 11 about Rahab the “harlot”. Why not own up an tell me what you would have done in her situation...... Kung Fu? You feel the Spies were a bunch of gutless wonders throwing the Harlot under the bus?

 

[Jedi Knight]

1 Corinthians 13:7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.:type: Always!

 

[John of Japan]

Then skip of Hebrews 11 about Rahab the “harlot”.

Here is that verse: " 31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace." The lie is not mentioned as being connected with her faith; only that she "received the spies with peace." How she protected them is not mentioned.

Why not own up an tell me what you would have done in her situation...... Kung Fu? You feel the Spies were a bunch of gutless wonders throwing the Harlot under the bus?

I believe I did this adequately in post #109, which you did not respond to. But here is another possibility for this direct situation.

She could have prayed for the Lord to block their understanding so that they did not connect the dots. Note how the servant of Elisha was blinded about the armies of God (2 Kings 6:17), and how the angels literally blinded the perverts trying to attack Lot (Gen. 19:11).

When I went into a Muslim country to minister, I told them outright that I was a Christian missionary--even gave them a document from the mission board saying that it would guarantee my finances. They still gave me the visa.