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Is it EVER OK to lie?
- Thread starter Jedi Knight
- Start date
Haven't read through the first 8 pages; but I'll rest my answer on "By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not...."
Are you serious or rhetorical?
If you are being serious and think she was faithful by her work as a prostitute or the "work" of lying, then you need to read the biblical account. There you may find that she hid Hebrew spies. If you are just being rhetorical then yes, it is obvious that she was credited for hiding the spies.
Okay. But I'll still ask again. What passage in Scripture actually says it is okay to lie to accomplish something good? I'm not talking about an example of someone who lied, but revelation from God to say lying is okay.Ok you like to play the Harlot I see......what right thing did she do? She lied to protect them.....karate chop it up but it's still what she did for her mention in Hebrews. She was known as Rahab the Harlot NOT Rahab the Liar!
1 Corinthians 13:7 love always protects
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Your right and a coward would cave and sequel......the Lord has a dim view of cowards. And you are correct it's not the "Norm" but love always protects :type:
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That's an interesting translation, Jedi. What Bible translates 1 Corinthians 13:7 as "love always protects"? (Mine says love rejoices with truth, does not act unbecomingly, does not seek it's own, and in verse 7 bears, believes, hopes and endures all things...but not "always protects").
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Sorry, I don't see that in 13:7. How does that work?
And that passage doesn't excuse dishonesty anyway in light of: "6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth."
Again, these are not the only options for the OP situation.
(1) You can be a coward and squeal. Not an option for a believer.
(2) You can be dishonest and lie. Again, I don't think that's an option.
(3) You can fight to the death without saying a word.
(4) You can use misdirection to put them off the trail, as a fighter uses a feint to provoke a reaction that will help him win.
(5) You can depend on the power of God in the Gospel (Rom. 1:16) and witness to them.
Note the following story in proof of (5):
Margaret Mayfield Palm, a young Christian lady, was taken hostage by a vicious criminal named Stephen Morin. Morin had just shot and killed Carrie Scott, who had tried to stop him from stealing her car (a big mistake!), and he was also being sought for the death of others. Morin, running from the police, had been trapped in a motel room by the police, but fled out the bathroom window. He then abducted Penn at a gun-point to get her car. As UPI put it, “Palm testified that as they drove for eight to 10 hours, she told him about Christ and forgiveness and quoted the Bible. Before he boarded a bus, Morin gave Palm the bullets from his gun. He was arrested a short time later at an Austin, Texas, bus station.” (Japan Times, 3/12/85)
Only when talking about Calvinists.
There are quite a few acts in there. Which one do you mean?
As scripture has already established that it is wrong to lie, I believe it appropriate for you to show that it was not a sin. I think most opposing your position are content submitting to Scripture while you are the one trying to reason it out. JoJ is right...there are various aspects to the narrative.
I counted 17 different acts in the narrative.
That's somewhat of a false dichotomy. I'm also content on submitting to Scripture WHILE reasoning it out using context.
It's a biblical dichotomy (Proverbs 3:5 presents the exact same dichotomy...not to mention the entire premise of "repent and believe"). You have elevated your reasoning to that of Scripture (where Scripture simply states that God hates a lie, you reason that this is not always the case). I agree that we consistently reason out Scripture, but when push comes to shove (when we take a stand) it is on Scripture and not our understanding. I could understand the argument that although these people lied, their actions as a whole have been credited as righteous. But to simply say that it is OK to lie is a denial of Scripture. The dichotomy stands, it is not false at all.
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There are five acts in those two verses alone. Which act do you mean?
You are doing the very thing you are accusing me of. You are elevating your understanding to include what you want it to say. The Bible also says do not kill, so using your reasoning, the death penalty is wrong not to mention the many instances where God commanded people to be killed.
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take a stab at it, what are the five actions?