Featured The 5 Points that lead me out of Calvinism

Not according to the Bible

"He came TO His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11

"Oh Jerusalem - How I WANTED to spare your children.. but you would not" Matt 23

How many times does this text totally refute the idea you are trying to promote before you are satisfied??

 

Answer the question Yes or No ! Was the Lord Jesus Christ successful in seeking and saving the Lost He came to seek and to save ?

 

You do realize that only accepting yes or no answers is a form of trolling? Have you quit beating your wife? Answer only yes or no!

 

I tried making the same point here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2181194&postcount=316
I was basically ignored.

 

This thread is well over the 30 page limit, why isn't it closed. I have had and seen worthwhile threads closed after 15-20 pages or less. This one is mostly Ryan duplicating his posts and "sbm" insisting "yes or no"!

Dr. Bob just closed a thread with only 18 pages and more useful debate, except for a little humor introduced at the end!

 

One of the frequent flaws in efforts to exegete a passage is in discerning the extent or scope of a statement. Here (2 Cor. 4:3) we have the statement "those who are perishing." Calvinism reads this as "all those who are perishing" because that is consistent with total spiritual inability. Then we get "blinded the minds of the unbelieving" and again we get the Calvinist reading of "blinded the minds of all the unbelieving."

The sad truth is I have yet to meet any Calvinist who is aware or is willing to admit an awareness, that their reading is based on assumptions , i.e. all rather than some. Non-Cal's read it "some of those who are perishing" and "blinded the minds of some of the unbelieving" to be consistent with Matthew 13.

 

Nor are they willing to take into consideration the entire context;

2Co 4:1-6
(1) Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
(2) But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
--Paul is speaking of false teachers, Judaizers to be specific, who came "dishonestly," with a "hidden" message, "handling the word of deceitfully," etc.
Paul did none of those things. Therefore he says:

(3) But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
"But If..." Indicating a hypothetical. If we did as the false teachers did.
"But if we hid our gospel it would still be hid to them that are lost."
--But Paul's gospel was not hid. It is a glorious gospel, not hidden at all.
It shines forth the glory of God and is available to the lost that they may be saved. It is not hidden. Why would Paul preach a hidden message? He doesn't.

(4) In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
--But Satan blinds the minds of unbelievers and does his best to keep them from believing. Peter says "he goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour."
However the power of Paul's message is "the light of the glorious message (that can overcome Satan), can shine into the lost men, and make them in the image of God! What power!

(5) For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
--Paul did not come as the false teachers came preaching their prideful selves. He came preaching Christ, and Christ the Lord.

(6) For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
--It is the Gospel that declares the message that God commands light to shine out of darkness resulting in light in our hearts, giving the knowleged of the glory of God in face of Christ. This is the result of the gospel, and what it can do for the lost.

This is what the Calvinist is missing, especially SBM.

 

The Gospel is hid to them that are Lost, that they believe not, their minds are blinded by the god of this world, the devil !

2 Cor 4:3-4

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Those whose minds are blinded by satan, are in a state of lostness ! Also as I stated before, the word hid, used twice in Vs 3 and both times its in the perfect tense, denoting its finality, Paul here is basically speaking of the Lost Vessels of Wrath, the reprobate, they have no chance of ever being saved, never did !

But the Elect, whom Christ died for, even though they are as the reprobate are, born in a experimentally lost and estranged condition, They are saved out of it because of what Christ has done for them, defeating for them all the works of the devil 1 Jn 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Hence, the devil can no longer keep their minds blinded, and the Gospel hid from them, as he can and does for the lost !

 

dhk

This is a statement in direct rebellion of the Truth Paul so clearly stated, That his Gospel is hid from them that are Lost ! 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

For this to be just a mere hypothetical as you falsely stated, because the scripture doesnt say that, dhk said it, there couldnt be anyone lost but hypothetically ! We know thats a lie, because Paul says it [his gospel] is hid from them that are lost !

 

You've told me before in your theology that people are born saved or born damned. So how can you use the phrase "they have no chance of ever being saved, never did"? Now you've changed to the Elect being in some "experimentally lost and estranged condition." How are they saved out of that when the Bible says the gospel must be preached in order for faith to come of effect and people to be saved. But you say only the already saved can hear the gospel.

And again, you are ignoring the word IF. By ignoring this word, and the conditional nature it has on the following verses, you have changed the meaning of scripture.

 

I shot this to pieces in post #347.
As I went through it verse by verse you do the same.
Refute it verse by verse. Let's see if you can do it.

 

So the word "IF" has no meaning to you. That is why you always ignore it.
Paul doesn't say it is "his gospel" that is lost, does he.
Why would Paul preach a hidden false gospel? Ridiculous!!!!

 

dhk

Yeah, everyone is not Lost, but if they are lost, its because the devil has blinded their minds, and in that condition, the Gospel is hid from them ! Thats pretty simple !

 

The scripture doesn't say "WHEN our gospel is hid, it is hid permanently to the lost." It says "IF our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost."

Yes, Satan will blind people to the truth, but the gospel acts as the light of Christ to them, that they might see the truth. But the gospel is not permanently hid from them. IF the gospel is hid (permanently) from the lost, yet the gospel is the light of Christ and is required, per Romans 10, so that people can call on the name of the Lord and be saved, then it stands to reason that the gospel is hid not by Satan, but by God because He did not send a preacher. But that idea does not sit well with the scripture, unless you ignore words and make the scripture say what your twisted theology says it should say.

 

Ah, so the devil is more powerful than the Word. Thanks for that clarification.