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Indeed certain texts... certain questions "much to be avoided" in Calvinism.

Which is why you have to wonder how it is that they think this would be compelling for the objective unbiased Bible student?

Who would want to adopt a model that requires you to run from such questions and from so many Bible texts??

More often than not "other Calvinists" have chosen a "take my toys and go home" solution -- and we can be glad that SBM seems to know that this is not the right answer to difficult Bible questions.

 

Which of these Bible texts do you fear - in the answer to what Christ did at the cross???

1John 2:2 "He is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sin and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE Word"

Christ had to pay the debt of sin for all sins of all people of the whole world in all of time.

Col 2 says that it is our "certificate of debt" that is nailed to the cross.

The debt we owe as sinners.

Thus it is the certificate of debt -- "for OUR sin and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE Word" 1 John 2:2 that is nailed to the cross.

In Lev 16 God Himself describes for us the process of "Atonement" and part of that is the work of Christ as the "Sin offering" where the Atoning Sacrifice is made which is then FOLLOWED by the work of Christ as High Priest.

In Heb 8:1-2 Paul tells us WHEN that work began. IN Heb 9 and in Heb 4 Paul states that the High Priestly work of Christ in heaven 'for us' - is still ongoing. The thing most feared in Calvinism.

Or do you mostly fear these texts??

 

Lost people in the world still being "Begged" to "be reconciled to Christ"

"We BEG YOU be reconciled to Christ" 2Cor 5

 

on the Cross Christ provides the "Atoning Sacrifice" for "The Whole World" 1John 2:2 -- a Bible fact much feared by many Calvinists.

In Heb 10 Christ is our sanctification.

In Eph 2 Christ is our resurrection and we are seated with him in the heavenly places.

But neither of these in the nonsensical mormon pre-life saved-before-born-on earth fashion .

Were you "born in heaven" at the right hand of God - seated with Christ -- or were you born on earth??


Rom 5:8
. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us


But not in the nonsensical mormon pre-life idea... where we were alive and sinning before Christ dies for us - or while Christ was dying for us.

Eph 2
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Were you "by nature a child of wrath" before you were saved in real life? on this actual earth? or is Paul simply "wrong"??

Did you sin before Christ died on the cross??

Rom 5:8
. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us

 

What then is a thing for us to "pursue" according to Hebrews?? Sanctification!

[FONT=&quot]Heb 12[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Pursue[/FONT][FONT=&quot] peace[/FONT][FONT=&quot] with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

And what does it mean to "see the Lord" ?

Paul said no man has, nor ever can, see God

John the Revelator wrote that every eye shall see Christ.

So.....context? contradiction? circus acrobatics?

Make that fit - and for cryin' out loud, 1/4 page or less.


I asked this to one of the Calvinists who quoted it, and he copied and pasted about 4 pages worth of supposed "scholar" comments

 

Verse 10 means nothing without verse 14, which is the thrust of your original post.

But you will more than likely miss how verse 14 applies, too. Try looking in chapter 12, verses 22-24, and especially verse 23

 

1 John 3:1-6 --- John says when He comes (2nd coming ) "we shall SEE Him as He is".

That does not take 4 pages.

in Christ,

Bob

 

"WILL we have been sanctified" --




What then is a thing for us to "pursue" according to Hebrews?? Sanctification!

[FONT=&quot]Heb 12[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Pursue[/FONT][FONT=&quot] peace[/FONT][FONT=&quot] with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.[/FONT]

Because Christ provides this on the cross.

on the Cross Christ provides the "Atoning Sacrifice" for "The Whole World" 1John 2:2 -- a Bible fact much feared by many Calvinists.

In Heb 10 Christ is our sanctification.

In Eph 2 Christ is our resurrection and we are seated with him in the heavenly places.

But neither of these in the nonsensical mormon pre-life saved-before-born-on earth fashion .

Were you "born in heaven" at the right hand of God - seated with Christ -- or were you born on earth??


Rom 5:8
. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us


But not in the nonsensical mormon pre-life idea... where we were alive and sinning before Christ dies for us - or while Christ was dying for us.

Eph 2
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Were you "by nature a child of wrath" before you were saved in real life? on this actual earth? or is Paul simply "wrong"??

Did you sin before Christ died on the cross??

Rom 5:8
. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us

 

Revelation 1:7 says that when He comes in the clouds, EVERY eye shall see Him, even those who pierced Him.

Plus, you didn't offer any explanation of what you think SEE HIM means in Hebrews.

 

Both Heb 12 and 1 John 3 are in Greek.

So also Rev 1:7.

1 John 3 and Rev 1:7 both refer to the second coming -- so also Heb 12.

The fact that "they that pierced Him" will also see Him at the 2nd Coming does not change the fact. The saints see Christ as they are in glorified bodies according to 1 John 3 - the wicked world sees him and cries out to the rocks to fall on them Rev 6.

In any case - this does not appear to take from the point already made about Heb 12.

 

WRONG !!

Everyone will be raised BODILY on account of Christ's resurrection. In Adam all die, in Christ all will be made alive. Bodily resurrection, even for unbelievers

Universal restoration of the physical realm, on account of Christ's death.


Think larger than Calvinism and you might start getting it

 

But every eye shall see Him, even unbelievers who aren't sanctified. And Paul said no man has ever, nor can ever, see God.

Your flimsy distinction didn't offer any definition of what "see Him" in Heb 12 consists of. The saints see Him? But your doctrine allows for a saint to shrink back into perdition, thus supposedly disqualifying that saint from seeing Him

Also, even unbelievers will have "glorified" bodies, for they will be raised. See 1Cor 15:21-22

So your distinction doesn't hold water.

What does "see Him" mean ??

 

I never insinuated that all have been sanctified. But all will be raised, which will only happen because Christ died and was raised.

Think about it for a little bit before your next knee jerk reply. Search the scriptures, not the thoughts of a bunch of Calvinist hacks