Featured Perfected forever !

That shows you have a dust deep understanding of sin, and what Christ's death accomplished, and the scope of reconciliation, and the nature of resurrected bodies

I told you to think first, and also to study. You haven't done either. And that's sad

 

You read Rev 1 correctly.

But you are missing 1John 3:1-4 -- read it "we shall be like Him -- for we shall see Him - AS HE IS"

John says we don't know what we will be but we do know this "we will be like HIM" for "we shall see Him as He IS" at the 2nd coming.

No writer says that of any of the wicked.

In fact God tells Moses that he cannot see God as He is - and live.

only in the fallen state.

Rev 6 the lost see Him (not as He is ) but they see Him and cry of the rocks to fall on them.

The wicked in Rev 20 see Him - and are destroyed by fire that comes down out of heaven and "devours them" according to Rev 20.

The bible is pretty clear on these points - I don't see where you are having the problem.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Smart move. Now take the opportunity to learn what the scriptures say about the issue.


However, the original topic was not a question about two things Christ's death accomplished.

Your original post was an emphatic claim - Perfected Forever!

Hebrews 10:14 makes an emphatic statement that He has forever perfected those who are sanctified.

Now. It's this simple. It was your thread title, not anybody else's. You, not anyone else, penned the first post in the thread, and quoted Heb 10:14

But you have refused to answer the questions about the reality of perfection accomplished.

are you perfect? did Christ accomplish that for you?

Yes or no, it's that simple. How can you demand an answer from others, when you're unwilling to apply an answer to yourself?

Christ has forever perfected those who are sanctified. You claim to be sanctified. So are you perfect? If you aren't perfect, then you aren't sanctified.

So answer. Are you perfect? Did Christ accomplish that for you?

 

The problem I have is that you won't answer the question I asked. What does it mean to "see the Lord" in Heb 12:14?

It's just a simple question.

You throw around Hebrews 12:14 without qualification or clarification.

No one will "see the Lord" without sanctification (or holiness).

I'm simply asking you to get down to brass tacks. Specific definition of "see the Lord"

But you keep dancing.

 

Just curious, savedbymercy, but how is someone perfected and then born as a sinner? Are we not, as sinners, by necessity imperfect? We are corruptible so long as we wear this flesh. We cannot be perfected in this sin-corrupted body. Yet you are saying we are perfected prior to being born sinners. Wouldn't that perfection stop us from being born a sinner?

 

STOP messing up MY perfect exposition with all these difficult questions!!!!!!!!!!! :smilewinkgrin:

Questions are what try the spirits, to see if they are from God. Questions try doctrinal povs, real life applications must be worked through and settled. This is why you see me raising lots of questions in my threads, and doctrinal error being exposed is why you see many questions being avoided like the plague. Oftentimes you see one of two things, (1) the poster ignores the questions (2) the poster resorts to vitriol and acrimony.

 

We can be perfected while we're in this flesh. Jesus was made in the likeness of sinful flesh, yet remained perfect.

Check out:


Hebrews 10:14
14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.


Hebrews 11:39-40
39 And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.


Hebrews 12:22-24
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel


Read the whole of Heb 8-10, where the writer contrasted the Aaronic priesthood with that of Christ, and contrasted the animal sacrifices with that of Christ.

His blood removes sin. Our inner man the spirit, is forever perfected in regeneration. But our flesh will not be perfected until the resurrection.

That's why 1John 3:9 says the one who is born of God is not able to sin. Paul said as much in Romans 7 - it is no longer I who do it, but sin in me; that is, in my flesh (body). But who will save me from this body of death? Christ.

Go back to Romans 5. Having been (past) justified by His blood, we shall be (future) "saved" by His life (resurrection)


Read 2Cor 4-5. There's a distinction between the inner man, who is being strengthened day by day, and the outer man which is perishing.

Neglecting this distinction forces a view of righteousness which hinges on behavior. Or it hinges on a "symbolic" imputation, which reduces the blood of Christ to being no better than that of an animal

 

True, James, and I realized the sort of ambiguity my original statement left. Likewise I believe the inner man to be perfected. I was trying to speak more in terms of the outer man, or the flesh itself. Like too many times in the past, I failed to properly state my case the way I intended.

We can strive for perfection, or for avoiding sinfulness, as Christ told the woman taken in adultery to "go, and sin no more." But we do fall into temptation from time to time. This does not justify sin at all, but it does note that we do sin. Thankfully, if we sin, we have an advocate with the Father.

As you said, this flesh will not be perfected until the resurrection.