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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reformed, Jan 28, 2015.

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  1. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    SavedByMercy made the following comment in another thread:

    Am I the only Calvinist who takes umbrage with this statement?

    I would start by asking what type of Arminian SBM is describing. I have found that a great many Synergists do not consider themselves Arminian (although they are) and bristle at being labeled such. They would say that man does not cooperate with God in salvation, even though that is exactly what their soteriology advocates. They maintain a sort of theological cognitive dissonance.

    A true Arminian (or better yet, a convinced Arminian) would take immense pride in saying that man cooperates with God in salvation. The true Arminian would probably hold to other doctrinal distinctives that would separate him from the modern Synergist we find today in broad evangelicalism, such as denying original sin and perseverance of the saints. However the modern day Arminian is actually a Synergist who enjoys a happy inconsistency within his synergistic belief system. To accuse them of being unbelievers is an incredible statement that displays hubris and ignorance.
     
    #1 Reformed, Jan 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2015
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    He is a regular poster in the Other Christian Denom. Forum, and has made such statements many times. So, no you are not the only one that has been offended by such. Many of us have.
     
    #2 DHK, Jan 28, 2015
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Would you say then that they are in rebellion?
     
    #3 Earth Wind and Fire, Jan 28, 2015
  4. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Bro. Squire stated this in the newly closed thread...

    There's no 'seems' about it...:tear:
     
    #4 convicted1, Jan 28, 2015
  5. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I would say that those who know the right thing to do and do not do it are in rebellion. When I was a Synergist I was 100% convinced I was right. I was wrong but not in rebellion.
     
    #5 Reformed, Jan 28, 2015
  6. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Same with me...
     
    #6 convicted1, Jan 28, 2015
  7. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    But SBM, like all Calvinist, claims their beliefs come directly from God through "Divine Enablement". You will hear statements such as "God opened my eyes".

    Now if SBM can be so "ignorant" concerning TULIP verses the Gospel, what does that say about his beliefs on Calvinism itself? Who decides what "God has opened to the eyes" and what He has not?
     
    #7 steaver, Jan 28, 2015
  8. PreachTony

    PreachTony Active Member

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    Yeah, if we were to list off all the various statements SBM has made recently, including complete misinterpretations of scripture, ignoring or downright removing words from scripture to make the text say what he wants it to say, and now calling into question the salvation of many BB members, well, it would take a long time to list it all.
     
    #8 PreachTony, Jan 28, 2015
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    I consider myself a true Arminian - so then synergist by definition.

     
    #9 BobRyan, Jan 28, 2015
  10. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Interesting. So modern arminians are really closet calvinists?
     
    #10 Don, Jan 28, 2015
  11. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    He explained it here:

     
    #11 Jerome, Jan 28, 2015
  12. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    That is not what I said or even meant to intimate.

    Most contemporary Arminians (or what I call the "rank-and-file") in broad evangelicalism really do not have a definite opinion on the Calvinist-Arminian debate. Venues such as the Baptist Board attract those who are interested in the debate. But from what I have experienced in my multiple decades of being a Christian is that most church members go with what their local church or denomination believes.

    True Synergism (I place Arminianism and semi-Pelagianism under the Synergist umbrella) teaches that man cooperates with God in salvation because God will not violate the free will of the creature. But ask your average non-Calvinist church-goer whether they even understand that concept and you will receive a big NO as your answer.
     
    #12 Reformed, Jan 28, 2015
  13. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    That is a false statement. I do not believe my Calvinist convictions were derived by "Divine Enablement". They came through my study of the scriptures.

    And that Christian colloquialism is unique to Calvinists?
     
    #13 Reformed, Jan 28, 2015
  14. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Well that's good to hear, but I do believe you are the only Calvinist here that has said such. I had a thread on this topic
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=97186 and only one Calvinist disagreed with the OP, and even he then waffled a bit when challenged with his disagreement. No other Calvinist came forth to rebuke the claim of "Divine Enablement". In fact it was even more than that, the poster gave Matt 13 as proof as to why folks believe in Calvinism, which is a salvation passage.
     
    #14 steaver, Jan 28, 2015
  15. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Let me ask you a question. If you study something in the Bible, and change your current view because of it, would you say the Lord played a part in that change?
     
    #15 Reformed, Jan 28, 2015
  16. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    The best way to handle SBM is ignore him!
     
    #16 OldRegular, Jan 28, 2015
  17. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    I was trying not to throw gasoline on the fire. So, my "seems" can very well be removed from the sentence.
     
    #17 Squire Robertsson, Jan 28, 2015
  18. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Same with me!
     
    #18 OldRegular, Jan 28, 2015
  19. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Could be. I know I prayed earnestly for the Lord to show me TULIP in the bible if it be true because truth is ultimately what I seek, and thus far all I see is it's flaws in it's twist and turns.

    Let me ask you a question. Is it possible you could be wrong about TULIP being correct?
     
    #19 steaver, Jan 29, 2015
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  20. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Could be? Take off your anti-Calvinist hat for a moment. Suppose we are talking about another area of theology. If you studied that area, and you changed your current view, would you attribute that change to God? I do not think "could be" is a good answer. It seems like you are trying to straddle the fence without committing yourself.
     
    #20 Reformed, Jan 29, 2015
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