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Hmm... There seems to be a history between you and this poster that causes you to interpret his posts a certain way. I did not see any indication in the original post (at least in this thread) that he believed this was the only argument people make for abstaining from alcohol. I do not see any deception.

 

Well you were caught in a lie so what else so you expect us to say.

 

Well, ma'am - he did say he forgot about that one. I once told a gentleman that I didn't frequent casinos, forgetting about a meeting that someone had set up in one that I had to attend. I didn't intentionally lie.

Not that I'm on Evan's side about the issue of this thread. To come out of the blue with the opening post, means that either Evan's just resurrecting old discussions (we've had this one from him at least twice, if not three times previously); or something happened within the last 24 hours that got his gourd about his social drinking again. Maybe something that was said on another message board he goes to, or something that was said here; but it jabbed at him because he doesn't see any harm in it, and therefore feels the necessity to defend his social drinking.

 

My guess is someone got on him about social drinking in real life so now he has come on here to try to get people to defend his view and make him feel better. If I didn't know better I would think that his conscious about drinking was bothering him so he wants the board to make him feel better.

I don't have a problem with people drinking but I also have no problem with people not drinking and I have no problem with respecting that conviction of those I'm around. Its the Romans 14 principle.

 

One horrible MORNING (?!) he got so drunk...Mike's Hard Lemonade.

 

Well it was 5 OClock somewhere

 

LOL. We can be kinda tough on Evan at times. I'm hoping he was working 3rd shift and just got home, cuz alcoholic lemonade first thing in the morning - - yick!

 

That's what I'm laughing about, on the inside. It's almost impossible to get drunk on Mike's. You'd literally make yourself sick from the sugar before you got drunk.

 

Probably. I was given one once when I was fishing with friends. It was awfully sweet.

 

What I find ironic is when fat preachers preach against moderate consumption of alcohol. One of my seminary professors told a story about when he was pastoring. He had an evangelist come in and his first sermon was on alcohol and its evils. After the service, the evangelist asked the pastor "How did you like my sermon?" The pastor told him "I loved it. I expect I will enjoy your sermon on gluttony tonight equally well." The evangelist told him, "I am not preaching on gluttony tonight." The pastor told him, "well then you are not preaching tonight. Pack it up and move on." The evangelist was about 80 lbs overweight.

I personally do not drink. Having said that, I believe we should preach against sin; not simply pick and choose sins to preach about.

 

Just want to point out that people can be overweight - sometimes massively overweight - and it has nothing to do with gluttony or sin.

I was nearly 400 pounds less than a year ago and I didn't know why. For years, doctors and, I'll assume, well-meaning people informed me that I must be overeating and too lazy. I was not lazy and I knew I did not overeat. In fact, I tracked my calories and I consumed calories at a level where I should have been dropping weight very quickly.

After literally more than a decade of talking to doctors and getting nowhere, I diagnosed myself as likely having a pituitary disorder through the internet. A few weeks later I was at the doctor's office seeing a nurse practitioner for a cold and made my case. She had not had as much experience as other medical professionals I had seen and therefore didn't "know" that people with unusual disorders don't come into her office. She ordered a blood test to prove that I didn't have a problem. The test came back with unexpected results. I had more tests to prove I didn't have an issue. They came back with unexpected results. They ordered an MRI and found a pituitary tumor. I was then referred to an endocrinologist who assured me I didn't have a problem - I was just fat - and ran a test to demonstrate that I was a hypochondriac. That test came back positive. He ran a few more tests and finally diagnosed me with Cushing's Disease and referred me to a neurosurgeon. The neurosurgeon looked at me and told me I was just fat and decided that my test results and tumor may have just been the result of "being depressed" because I am so fat and my overeating. I showed him records of my diet and tried to persuade him to take me seriously - I had a diagnosis from an excellent endocrinologist! He refused to do anything about it, and Cushing's Disease can only be resolved through surgery - removing the tumor. Moreover, it will eventually kill you through complications.

I went to MD Anderson in Houston where a was completely reevaluated by a new endocrinologist and she determine that I did indeed have Cushing's Disease and I was still a good candidate for surgery - although I was rapidly getting worse. They performed surgery on 10/15/2015, and I am feeling much better today. I have also lost about 65 pounds since October and the weight is slowly coming off (about 10 pounds a month) without heavy dieting or excessive exercise.

However, I still face a fair amount of criticism about my weight from people who just assume things because of appearances. As a church leader, I stressed the importance of moderation and self-control, but many people could not get past my appearance and made assumptions about me that were false. That is incredibly frustrating when you are being faithful to God in those areas but being condemned for things out of your control.

I tell you all of this to make a point - do not judge people according to appearances. You may think it is obvious what is wrong, but there's a decent chance you really don't. Even among those who overeat, there are often some real and crippling issues that drive the overeating. You need to be concerned with those issues instead of simply claiming gluttony.

 

But the whole point is, you can't make the call. You are not in a position to judge that unless you see someone consistently binging - someone actually committing the sin.

Being overweight is judged very harshly in our culture where all kinds of assumptions are made about the person. I would hope that the church would be a place where people would not make snap judgements, but come alongside those who are having issues and see how they can help.

 

I've encountered both reactions. I am overweight. I don't try to hide it or make excuses for it. I am trying to lose weight, but it takes time.

I've encountered people who couldn't care less if you were 100 pounds or 1000 pounds. I've also encountered people who think that anyone who is so much as 5 pounds overweight is a second-class citizens worthy of disdain.

 

But you do read the apostles encouraging Paul to do it. Paul even offered a sacrifice in the temple in the process. Not saying this is normative. But it is something to think about.

 

Have you ever been seriously overweight?

My experience is rather negative. Lots of condescension, and folks assume a lot of things about you that are not necessarily accurate. It doesn't always come out in hostile ways, but people treat you very differently.