Featured A Tale of Two Faiths

The Bible commands one to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, in order to be saved. See Acts 16:30,31. Without faith there is no salvation.
Salvation is not some mystical, mysterious, metaphysical nonsense as described by Protestant. Salvation is the gift of God, the work of Christ on the cross, offered to the unregenerate as a gift. It must be received by faith.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
--One becomes a child of God by believing on his name.

Protestant offers philosophy, philosophy that primarily comes from Calvin, but some of his own imagination as well.
In contrast, I will offer Scripture. Why do some believe and some do not?
Take a look at history:

In Thessalonica:
Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
--Paul preached for three Sabbath days. Note that in the matter of salvation the gospel comes first, not regeneration, but the Word. Then what happens?

Acts 17:4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
Acts 17:5 But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.
--Some believe and others do not. Some put their faith in Christ, and others rebel against the gospel, even to the very extent that they attack the messengers and set one of their houses on fire.
Someone once said that the gospel will either make you mad or glad.
It is your choice whether to believe or not. God forces no one.

In Iconium:
Acts 14:4 But the multitude of the city was divided: and part held with the Jews, and part with the apostles.
--Some believed and some didn't.

Throughout the missionary journeys of Paul, as he preached the gospel, some believed and others didn't. On the Day of Pentecost 3,000 were saved out of approximately 100,000. Why did 97,000 remain unsaved? They rejected their Messiah. See John 1:11.

The statement of Protestant:
It was what he did that made the difference.
--is nothing but a personal attack, something he does when he can't answer scripture. Pitiful.

Ungodly slurs and attacks; putting words in my mouth; lies, etc.

Salvation is all of God. I have always maintained that. Why, then, do you post such nonsense?

Jesus talked about having "faith as a little child."
He said to many "thy faith has made you whole."
What faith was he speaking of? He was speaking of the faith that is innate in every person.
But Protestant if you decide not to exercise your faith you will remain lost in your sins, as will every person that does NOT BELIEVE in the name of the Son of God. Salvation is by faith.

Did I say that? Quote me.

Good scripture. I believe it too.

No, not faith per se. Faith in Christ. Faith must have an object.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved," is the promise.
If you believe on Christ as Lord, and in his saving work, you shall be saved.
The object of your faith must be Christ.

Protestant I think you put your faith in yourself.
I put faith in Christ.
Faith has an object. Every man has faith. Where is your faith: self, money, cars, sports, family, etc. What is the object of your faith?

You make an assumption that is not necessarily true. It sounds like you don't know your Bible very well.

Only Christ can bridge the gap. He provides the salvation. Salvation is a gift. But the gift must be received, received by faith. Salvation, nevertheless is all of God.

That is not true.

More ignorance and personal attacks.

You have an overactive imagination and are unable to use the Word of God.
Therefore you have nothing in your arsenal but to hurl insults. You know no other method of debate.
Let me demonstrate.
When Benjamin tried to teach you some of these same truths (God is a God of love, loves all, etc.)

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2012089&postcount=9

Your reply to Benjamin was:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2012495&postcount=16
--You haven't changed one iota in two years of posting.

God's love is boundless, impenetrable.
Needless to say the monergist faith is quite different from the Bible and follows a former Catholic priest called Calvin who followed Augustine. Both were persecutors of Christians.
Despite the claims of Protestant, God loves all the world, all the people in the world, and would never refuse any that would come to him.
Whosoever will may come.

 

Why do you resort to lies when you can't defend your cause? That's a mark of a guy who is desperate.

Protestant never described salvation with your invented nonsense. You owe him an apology.

Well good on ya'. Now go the whole way and give honor to the Lord and His Word by also declaring that faith and repentance are gifts to the ones of His choosing.

The "monergist faith" gives all glory to God for their salvation, faith and repentance. All of which come from His hand not the puny creature. How is that "quite different from the Bible" DHK?

Calvin appreciated the works of Augustine with discrimination. He disagreed with him about one third of the time. To say that Calvin did not follow the Bible is absurd as it is repugnant.

And historically, Calvin was never a priest --I have pointed that out to you numerous times yet you still delight in falsehoods about the man of Geneva.

As I have said, you specialize in falsehoods. And because of your fondness for falsehoods --your claims rest on vapor.

 

There is one thing good for me personally that has come out of this thread. I read the "I was born with faith" posts, and it shows me how wrong I was a while back, using the sovereignty of God, grace, faith, and even the life of Calvin to irk others. Biblical truth is the same always, and that truth summed up is that everything is of the Lord and nothing of man. I reread some of my former posts from 2012 and before, and they sound exactly like the posts of the other side I am reading in this thread. It is one thing to disagree on the issues, but it is quite another to post just to get a reaction. Sometimes it takes harsh measures to get ones thinking straight. For that I apologize to all I did this to, especially two posters who know who they are.

 

Excellent exegesis and observations :thumbsup: . I admire your patience in trying to help others understand God's teaching on salvation and how it comes about through simple faith placed in Jesus Christ.

I believe 99% of believers begin with this Holy Spirit taught biblical understanding of placing faith in Jesus Christ. Then some, after doing what they believe is some "deep digging" with the natural mind, end up burying this simple truth with all the dirt they toss up from all the digging!

 

I didn't lie. I told the truth. I have stated the same thing a few times before. Disagree with me if you like; I don't care. It is my opinion of what Calvinists hold to when they describe regeneration. Inasmuch as the RCC believe the superstition that "water washes away sin," (Hindus believe the same, Hence baptizing themselves in the Ganges River); Calvinists can't explain their superstitious belief in a mystical regeneration that supposedly takes place without Christ, without the gospel, without the Word of God whatsoever. Presto! You are regenerated magically out of thin air without even knowing about! Why? Simply because you were elect from the foundation of the world. Silliest doctrine I have ever heard, and certainly not supported in Scripture. Like Hinduism it is not supported in the Bible. Again, that is the way I see it described by Calvinists on this board.

I don't owe him any apology. I used his name. To reword it: "Protestant, as a representative of Calvinists on this board, believes as most Calvinists do, that regeneration is: mystical, mysterious, undefinable...
I didn't quote him.

Why would I post something that is not biblical. I have been posting here for years--show me where God gives faith to the unregenerate. You or no one else has ever been able to demonstrate that God does such a thing.
Do you charge God with foolishness? Faith is a fruit of the Spirit and a gift of the Spirit. God gives neither to the unregenerate.

In the last testimony that I read from a monergist he was giving experience and works as a basis for salvation. So think again.
You probably do the same thing. Do one thing and claim another.

Calvin was a murderer. Again and again he had people executed for "breaking "his law." These are recorded facts.
Will Durant, a reliable historian writes in his "History of Civilization," III: 474

Very few wanted to live under such horrendous laws; a state-church government.

Okay. His father enrolled him in the College de La Marche at the University of Paris with the intent that he should study theology and become a priest. He registered under the name "Johannes Calvinus," reflecting his love for Latin. However, soon after his father was excommunicated from the RCC, and shortly after that, his brother (already a priest), was also excommunicated for heresy. As a result Johannes Calvin, who was studying for the priesthood changed his vocation and began the study of law instead. He still remained a devout Roman Catholic, and finally in 1534 was influenced by Luther to leave and join the Protestant cause.
When he did, he took a lot of his RCC baggage with him, just as Luther did.

What falsehoods.
Read the quote from Durant. He was a persecutor of Christians.
They both were. If you want more evidence I will give it to you.
If he was judged by "his fruit" today, most would not consider him to be a Christian.

 

Rippon does what other defenders and idolaters of Calvin do, much the same as defenders of RC atrocities do: They say that, oh, Calvin didn't persecute or kill anyone, that it was the government which did that. What a farce! When church and state are united, both are the persecutors and murderers! And really all anyone has to do to see this truth is to read unbiased historical accounts of Calvin and also the RCC. Calvin was one of the worst people who ever walked the earth claiming to be a Christian.

 

Anyone can look up your 500 + posts from the past two years and see how you have started thread after thread on the same topic, posting exactly the same thing over and over again, only to be refuted by different persons time and again--never learning; never coming to the truth. It is apparent that this one of those posts, and one of the demonstrations of what I have just described. You don't change.

FORE-SEEN: "to see afore" Or to see ahead of time, related to His omniscience. He sees before it happens. It has no relation to predestination or predetermine.

The Lord elects on the basis of his omniscient foreknowledge that He, in his sovereign grace, knows who will (of their own free will), will choose or reject him, elect those who will choose him. Thus election is based on the free will of men--not on an indiscriminate will of God that a certain percentage should go to heaven, and the rest damned to an eternal torment in the Lake of Fire such as Calvin taught.

You are confused. That is what foreknowledge is. He sees beforehand what their future choices are.

You are very confused. Can't even quote the Bible correctly.

Clearly you are confused.

You shouldn't even speak here. You probably couldn't define faith even if you tried.

As I was saying....
Faith and free will are entirely different. You are confused.

More confusion and ignorance here.
Let the dead bury the dead.
Let those who are spiritually separated from God bury those whose spirits have been physically separated from their bodies. Death is separation.

Are you separated from God?

 

Repeating that lie of yours scores of times does not speak well of your integrity.

"Calvin did not have the authority in Geneva to arrest, torture, or execute anyone.

Any effort to paint John Calvin as a power mad authoritarian who ruled the church and the city with an iron fist and the threat of death simply belies the ignorance and lack of historical research on the part of the man who makes such a biased claim." (Jim McClarty)

You have known these facts for a long time yet, stubbornly refuse to admit your guilt.

You lie so easily. As I have said, you know the facts they have been placed before you time and time again by quotes of dozens of Church historians and Calvin scholars.

Calvin was with the Consistory which had no authority in civil matters.

"The Consistorial Court was the controlling power in the Church of Geneva. It has often been misrepresented as a sort of tribunal of Inquisition or Star Chamber. But it could only use the spiritual sword, and had nothing to do with civil and temporal punishments, which belonged exclusively to the Council. The names of Gruet, Bolsec and Servetus do not even appear in its records." (Schaff)

Not when it comes to Calvin, Calvinism or broad Christianty.

Here is what he said in a snip from his book Caesar and Christ:
"Paul created a theology of which none but the vaguest warrants can be found in the words of Christ...Through these interpretations Paul could not neglect the actual life and sayings of Jesus, which he had not directly known...Paul replaced conduct with creed as the test of virtue. It was a tragic charge."

Thousands throughout Europe flocked to Geneva as a safe-haven during Calvin's time there. That's a fact.

As you began with "Okay" you acknowledged that you were wrong, and your words here have demonstrated that he was not, in fact ever a priest.
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DHK, you have twisted so much Church history in your time on the BB. You have tried to soil Augustine's life. You have claimed that John Gill was against the Great Commision. You have claimed Calvin plagarized Augustine. You have made the absurd claim that Erasmus was a virtual Baptist. In instance after instance you have done your best to distort actual facts. Even contemporary times are mishapen in your hands:"The great majority of Presbyterians are swallowed up in their hyper-Calvinistic beliefs." What a hoot.

Out of ignorance you said that Calvin "lived in Geneva and spoke either Dutch or German." That was a funny line. But most of your bizarre historical revisionism is malacious. You need to be man enough to admit your falsehoods and repent of them for all to see.

 

Listen rebel, you claimed to have specialized in history while pursuing your education. I have submitted quotes to you from Calvin scholars in the past. You did not respond.

Unbiased scholars have come to conclusions based on facts --not on your fancies.

Have you bothered to read any of the following authors regarding John Calvin:

B.B. Warfield
Philip Schaff
A. Reillet
William Cunningham
Cottret
Cadier
McGrath
J.H. Merle D'Aubigne
Bruce Gordon
Basil Hall
Emile Doumergue
Herman J. Selderhuis
Williston Walker
Mark J. Larson

To name a few. If you are not familiar with anything they have had to say on the subject, you can consider yourself uninformed.

 

My integrity is just fine. Your false accusations don't speak well of you.

Calvin was the head of a state-church: in the RCC--the "Pope."
He made the laws; the Council approved and stamped them for him. He ran the show. A seat was always left open for him on the council.

Actually, to tell the truth would offend your sensibilities and be too hard for you to admit. It is: deny, deny, deny.

The fact that he was a cruel dictator? Yes, I have known that for a long time.
I have no guilt in admitting that it is a true fact.

Don't accuse me of lying. I have stated the truth and given historical citations. You don't like the truth so you attack the messenger. You also quote "selectively" hiding the truth, and making the truth into a lie. It is a dishonest way of trying to portraying a "truth" which is not.

Civil and religious matters were one and the same in a church-state.

Remember I also quoted Schaff to you. You quote selectively.

Calvin was as wicked and as cruel a person as one could find. Almost all historians attest to such, especially Durant.

This has nothing to do with Calvinism.

Yes, I am sure they did. During that tumultuous time persecution came not only from Geneva but also from Rome, if not from other areas as well.

He set out to be a priest; studied for the priesthood; had the knowledge of a priest; and when he became a Protestant carried the baggage of the RCC with him, just as Luther did.
If you are so set on defending Calvin and idolizing him, why haven't you joined the Presbyterian church?

Really? Are you serious?
This is one of the father's of the RCC.
He persecuted Christians. He believed in transubstantiation, baptismal regeneration, purgatory, and a host of other heresies. Yet you hold him up as one of your spiritual idols. You ought to be ashamed.

Calvin virtually worshiped Augustine. He quoted him page after page.
No doubt he did plagiarize him in different places. Do you have evidence he didn't? His volumes are full of his works.

But again, what did Augustine believe:

http://www.catholicfidelity.com/st-augustine-and-catholic-beliefs/

He was a brilliant man whose brilliance was coveted by Protestant, Catholic, and even royalty. In the end of his life his beliefs were more anti-Catholic then pro.

Hoot all you want. Calvin and Knox are the founders of the Presbyterianism. The great majority of Presbyterian churches naturally follow in Calvinistic footsteps. As to the definition of "hyper-calvinistic" that is relative to the person using it. Most on this board will have a different definition of who is hyper and who is not.

Most of your posts are malicious. Most of your history is revisionists. If you want to be bilblical in your outlook you need to take heed to the command: "Thou shalt not commit idolatry," and stop idolizing Calvin.

 

:thumbs::wavey::thumbsup: Thank you for your solid posting.

 

DHK

Protestant has given testimony to the biblical salvation as it is found In Christ.

You just do not recognize it.....the rest of us see it just the same way:thumbsup: you oppose it all the way.

We have to explain that to you everyday.

,

accomplished redemption for the Covenant people of God. no more/no less

offered to every believing one.

Yes Jesus is the Author and Finisher of saving faith.

yes..and it is very clear when we finish the thought;

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. you leave this part out...you do not like what it says:laugh:

The rest of us give all Glory to God:thumbsup:

People are made new creatures by the wonderous and mysreious new birth which you do not hold to like we do.

No one at anytime refuted anything he said. He openly exposed your error once again, so you lash out at him, calling him names.

We all know this is all you do, so we spot it instantly.

We are told that Paul preached for 3 days....we are not told explicitly of the exact activity of the Spirit and when he did His work of heart transplant,regenerating the dead sinners. This unseen work results in saving belief among the elect who heard.

exactly as Paul spoke about here;14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

The elect are enabled to believe by new birth....reprobates reject God's grace.

fallen man is devoid of faith to believe savingly. Those of us who know and understand biblical salvation and include jn 1:13...know you seek to remove the glory that goes to God alone.

this sounds like what you and stevear and the others seek to do everyday...nothing for edification...just attack truth and those like Rippon and Protestant who offer it.

It was not Jonah or any biblical person:laugh: many non cals have uttered such foolishness.

That is usually the case as God told Paul;

9 Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:

10 For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city.
God knows those who are His...not one will be lost.He knew them before they believed because He purposed to save them from start to finish.

 

What absurdities you are in the habit of making.

Calvin was subject to the Councils. He was not a magistrate. He didn't obtain his citizenship until a few years before his death. He held no civil office.

You have redefined the word fact. For the rest of us it means things that are true and can be established.

I will when you lie.

Your source of Durant is interesting in that he was not a Christian --if you will kindly review his opinion of the Apostle Paul.

"Almost all historians" huh? What a sick joke.

You need to read true history. The following are more reliable than your doubtful sources. None of them support your hate-filled agenda.

Philip E. Hughes
William Cunningham
Alister E. McGrath
T.H. L. Parker
C.H. Irwin
Otto Scott
R.C. Reed
Bernard Cottret
Jean Cadier
Williston Walker
Sinclair Ferguson
Bruce Gordon
B.B. Warfield
Basil Hall
Jean-Daniel Benoit
J.I. Packer
Francois Wendel
Philip Vollmer
Herman Selderhuis
Philip Schaff

Those are twenty reputable historians and Calvin scholars. You will not find any who support your wild untruthful charges about Calvin.

Geneva was singular in that regard. Europeans flocked there in the thousands --more than anywhere else. Why? Because they knew it was a safe-haven. Calvin had a good reputation for his biblical and moral authority.

As a minor John Calvin submitted to the authority of his father in that regard. He never was a priest. You were a former Roman Catholic. You were as much of a priest as Calvin was.
________________________________________________________________
I am pressed for time. I will respond to the rest of your post later, if it hasn't closed by the time I get back to it.

 

pt2

Jesus said they believe not BECAUSE they are not sheep.


The statement of Protestant:
It was what he did that made the difference.
--is nothing but a personal attack, something he does when he can't answer scripture. Pitiful.

no,,,he was very accurate...he just reported what you did and do everyday.

No you do not. You say the cross is of God.....but you claim you and other men do the rest...we read it all the time.

He is forced to post and answer your falsehoods and showing it over and over.

.

3 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

His posts are solid unlike yours so you attempt a shameful personal attack.

.

you mean he makes it possible, we know that He does it all.

you say this and then attach him in the next sentence..

everyone of us think it is the opposite, yet you continue in your hypocritical fashion.

 

He has no truth so he hides behind calvin Augustine and anyone else...Everyone schools him when he goes near scripture:laugh::laugh:

 

You are neither unbiased nor factual, nor, I might add, truthful. Why should I want to discuss anything with you?

You claim to be a Baptist. You'd better thank God that you did not live in Calvin's Geneva. If you had, and you'd tried to practice believer's baptism, liberty of conscience, and church-state separation, you would have got what Servetus got.

 

I generally don't like to get into Calvinist/Arminian discussions since I am neither. However, I don't mind occasionally exchanging thoughts about these systems, but I'd rather do so without listening to someone extol the virtues of a virtueless criminal and idolize a murderer and persecutor.

It's true that the Magisterial Protestant churches were just about as bad as the Roman Catholics when it came to religious persecution and murder, but I don't know of any single individual who was worse than Calvin for the bodies and souls of believers and unbelievers alike. His religious system was a dark blot on Christianity. It made a monster god, and humans mere puppets. Its deterministic fatalism had more in common with the god of Islam than the God of Jesus Christ and the New Testament.