A Tale of Two Faiths

[McCree79]

I don't often use fundamentalists as sources, Baptist or otherwise, but this article has the facts about Magisterial Protestant persecution and murder. I'll link to the entire article, and I urge all to read it, but below the link, here is an excerpt about Calvin:


http://www.wayoflife.org/database/protestantpersecutions.html



"JOHN CALVIN IN GENEVA WAS A PERSECUTOR

1. Calvin enforced Christian doctrine and principles at the point of the sword. In October 1563, the Geneva government burned to death Michael Servetus for heresy. Servetus held unitarian views and was definitely a false teacher, but the New Testament nowhere instructs the churches to kill false teachers. Servetus’ death sentence was supported not only by Calvin, but also by Melanchthon in Germany and Bullinger in Geneva and by other Protestant leaders who were consulted about the case.

2. Other men were also put to death under Calvin’s tenure. “So entirely was he in favour of persecuting measures, that he wrote a treatise in defence of them, maintaining the lawfulness of putting heretics to death; and he reduced these rigid theories to practice, in his conduct towards Castellio, Jerom Bolsee, and Servetus, whose fates are too generally known to require being here repeated. At the council of Geneva, 1632, Nicholas Anthoine was condemned to be first hanged and then burned for opposing the doctrine of the Trinity...” (J.J. Stockdale, The History of the Inquisitions, 1810, p. xxviii).

3. In the days of King Edward VI of England, Calvin wrote a letter to Lord Protector Somerset and urged him to put Anabaptists to death: “These altogether deserve to be well punished by the sword, seeing that they do conspire against God, who had set him in his royal seat” (John Christian, A History of the Baptists, Vol. 1, chap. 15).

4. Historian John Christian observes that Calvin “was responsible in a large measure for the demon of hate and fierce hostility which the Baptists of England had to encounter.”


Calvin was a demonic monster, and some supposed Baptists here want to defend, admire, and idolize someone who would have put them to death for their beliefs. Astounding! I thought I had seen just about everything, but I guess not.

I like how you stuck the execution of Nicholas Anthoine in there....like Calvin had something to do with it. Calvin died nearly 90 years before that execution.
I guess since all protestant framers are all so evil. You should denounce protestantism and become Amish.

 

[McCree79]

Monergists err when they allow themselves to be pulled into debates about John Calvin. Even if Calvin was a deranged psychopath it has nothing at all to do with Monergism. The theological case for Monergism pre-dated John Calvin. Rabid Synergists bring out the Calvin trump card thinking it is a theological refutation of Monergism. If you think about it, that is a tactic used when theological arguments have failed.

True.......

 

[McCree79]

Seeing what some Baptists have posted here, I would say that religious liberty needs to be reemphasized and its history re-taught. Maybe then the price our ancestors paid for it would be appreciated and not dishonored by misplaced loyalties and admirations.

I'm beginning to wonder if Baptists even hold to religious liberty any more.

Not one person has said it was Just to put Servetus to death.

America is blessed in so many ways. We should be more like Christ than anyone from the 1500's. We have access to more scripture translations and insight. We have Christian generation after generation....each generation should become more Christ like......may not be the case in my generation and the one after.....but we should be more knowledge in our theology, conformed more like Christ. Just like our education system that has always showed advancements. Our Christian eduction system should show advancements as well. I pray that our children's children are so sanctified.....so conformed to Christ, that look back on us a barbaric, uneducated Christians. Every generation of Christians should have a better understanding of the Bible than the previous. If not, the previous generation failed its children.

Our country and our generation of 2015, is an unfair comparison to Switzerland in 1500's. When we compare our moral compass on executions to the 1500's we do it under false variables. Our environment may have....probably would have.... Shaped us, just like it did them.

 

[McCree79]

The problem is Calvinist PROUDLY wear the label. Why? Face the facts, Calvin was a thug and understood nothing about the love of Christ and brethren. In fact according to God through John, one who says they love God and hates their brethren are liars. That is God's word on the matter and I agree with God.

I know very few reformed believes who go around calling themselves Calvinist. Almost all none Calvinist proudly slap the badge of "Calvinist" on those who hold to any portion of reformed theology. Not all reformed believers believe everything Calvin taught. Many separate from him on Baptism and some on the Lord's Supper.

 

[McCree79]

Face the facts. You are dead wrong. You need to do some real in-depth reading of the life of Calvin by a legitimate scholar --not your normal poisonous websites.

You need to read samples from his sermons, lectures, commentaries and letters. Do not feed yourself on hatred and utterly false accounts of his life. Act Christianly.

This is what he wrote to Servetus :

"I neither hate you nor despise you; nor do I wish to persecute you; but I would be as hard as iron when I behold you insulting sound doctrinewith so great audacity."

[emoji106]

 

[Rippon]

I don't often use fundamentalists as sources, Baptist or otherwise, but this article has the facts about Magisterial Protestant persecution and murder.

And the reading public needs to recognize that when you use the word facts the actual meaning is fiction.

Calvin enforced Christian doctrine and principles at the point of the sword.

He did no such thing, and didn't even qualify if you want to apply it to Romans 13:1-7.

In October 1563, the Geneva government burned to death Michael Servetus for heresy.

No, it was a decade earlier. And here is a contradiction. Earlier Calvin was supposed to have wielded the sword --now it's the Genevan government.

And technically heresy was considered a capital crime back then. Servetus was a wild card. He reveled in chaos. He was a wanted man anywhere in Europe at that time.

Other men were also put to death under Calvin’s tenure.

"Calvin's tenure", huh? Others were executed during Calvin's time in Geneva. He had no authority to put anyone to death. He was not in charge. Many times he implored the Council to consider this or that and was refused. Dictators are not refused. You have redefined yet another word.
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Get thee to a well-stocked library. David Cloud does not count as a church historian in any way, shape or form. You have proven that your credentials as having specialized in history is quite bogus. If you look upon him as authoritative you are simply deluded.

 

[Reformed]

And the reading public needs to recognize that when you use the word facts the actual meaning is fiction.

[/I]
He did no such thing, and didn't even qualify if you want to apply it to Romans 13:1-7.

No, it was a decade earlier. And here is a contraction. Earlier Calvin was supposed to have wielded the sword --now it's the Genevan government.

And technically heresy was considered a capital crime back then. Servetus was a wild card. He reveled in chaos. He was a wanted man anywhere in Europe at that time.
[/I]
"Calvin's tenure", huh? Others were executed during Calvin's time in Geneva. He had no authority to put anyone to death. He was not in charge. Many times he implored the Council to consider this or that and was refused. Dictators are not refused. You have redefined yet another word.
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Get thee to a well-stocked library. David Cloud does not count as a church historian in any way, shape or form. You have proven that your credentials as having specialized in history is quite bogus. If you look upon him as authoritative you are simply deluded.

It must stink to be a low information would-be theologian that stoops to lies and hack websites to try to malign a person they know nothing about.

 

[The Archangel]

You are only partially correct. The General Baptists, who were the first Baptists, were influenced by the Anabaptists/Mennonites, through John Smyth who gravitated toward them. Thomas Helwys, who was with Smyth when they fled to Holland, did not join Smyth in his sentiments and went back to England where he established the first Baptist church on English soil. Helwys and his group produced the first Baptist confession of faith.

In Calvin's time, I would have been an Anabaptist.

No.... Even if the earliest Baptists did have some contact with the Anabaptists (which is highly suspect and is the subject of great controversy in its accuracy) none of the Baptists--especially the General Baptists--bear any of the essential characteristics of the Anabaptists.

The Archangel

 

[Squire Robertsson]

At 368 posts this thread has gone on long enough. So, I'm closing it.