Featured My dilemma

Can you be more specific about what those Confessions state. I could not find any mention of Catholic!

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The papacy is Jesus "leading and directing" the doctrines and practices of the church of rome to them, and since the church of rome holds and treaches a false gospel, then?

 

Think he means it in the sense of the Universal church...

problem is that NO Confession/creed is ninding to a believer, as that is ONLY the bib le itself!

 

It is in section 26 for the BCoF

 

That Chapter 26 has nothing to say about the Roman Catholic Church!

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I think he is referring to the London Baptist Confession of 1689. It refers to the pope in ch. 26 section 4

 

Thanks! You are correct. I did a search for Roman but all references were to the Book of Romans. Did not think of doing a search for pope. The 1689 Baptist Confession borrows too much, in my opinion, from the Westminster Confession! Though I believe the Church of Rome is apostate I am not sure it is necessary for a Confession of Faith to try to identify the antichrist. John in his Epistles indicates there are many antichrists well before the pope existed.

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You are right. The LBCF is basically the Westminster.... Then it was tweaked to reflect Baptist believes.
As far was them targeting the pope....the Baptists....along with all Protestants, just had to deal with pope Benedict XIV claiming to be the infallible Vicar of Christ. The infallible leader of the true church. With the pope comparing himself so closely to Christ, a lot European Protestants felt very comfortable calling him a false Christ.

But like you....I probably would not have included that in a COF.

 

I will add that Protestants weren't the only one who came to the conclusion.

Pope Gregory, who held office in 590 AD said, " I confidently affrim that whosoever calls himself universal bishop, or desires to be called by others is in his prides forerunner of Antichrist.

"The title*pope, once used with far greater latitude (see below,section V), is at present employed solely to denote theBishop*of*Rome, who, in virtue of his position as*successor*ofSt. Peter, is the chief*pastor*of the whole*Church, the*Vicar of Christ*upon earth."
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm

It didn't take much for Protestants to reach the same conclusion that a previous pope warned about.

 

I was hoping that the text highlighted in red would be the giveaway.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Both the Baptist BCoF and the Westminster WCoF make that same identification for the Pope.

So also Luther, Calvin, Wesley ... even the Popes themselves refer to fellow Popes as antichrist, BEFORE Luther did!!.


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Arnulf Bishop of Orleans (Roman Catholic)
"deplored the roman popes as "monsters of guilt" and declared in a council called by the King of France in 991ad that the pontiff, clad in purple and gold, was, "Antichrist, sitting in the temple of God, and showing himself as God" -Phillip Schaff, History of the Christian church, 8 vols., reprint of the 3d (1910)ed. (Grand Rapids Mich.: Wm. B Eerdmans Publishing Co., n.d.)

Eberhard II, archbishop of Salzburg (Roman Catholic)
"stated at a synod of bishops held at Regensburg in 1240 (some scholars say 1241) that the people of his day were "accustomed" to calling the pope antichrist." -LeRoy Edwin Froom, The Prophetic Faith of our Fathers, 4 vols. (Wash DC: Review and Herald publishing assc, 1950-1954)

John Wycliffe
"When the western church was divided for about 40 years between two rival popes, one in Rome and the other in Avigon, France, each pope called the other pope antichrist - and John Wycliffe is reputed to have regarded them as both being right: "two halves of Antichrist, making up the perfect Man of Sin between them." -Ibid

Martin Luther (Lutheran)
"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist." (Aug. 18, 1520) Taken from The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Vol. 2., pg. 121 by Froom. (In response to a papal bull [official decree]): "I despise and attack it, as impious, false... It is Christ Himself who is condemned therein... I rejoice in having to bear such ills for the best of causes. Already I feel greater liberty in my heart; for at last I know that the pope is antichrist, and that his throne is that of Satan himself." --D'Aubigné, b.6, ch. 9.
Cotton Mather (Congregational Theologian)
"The oracles of God foretold the rising of an Antichrist in the Christian Church: and in the Pope of Rome, all the characteristics of that Antichrist are so marvelously answered that if any who read the Scriptures do not see it, there is a marvelous blindness upon them." Taken from The Fall of Babylon by Cotton Mather in Froom's book, The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Vol. 3, pg. 113.

John Wesley (Methodist)
Speaking of the Papacy he said, "He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers... He it is...that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped...claiming the highest power, and highest honour...claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone." Taken from Antichrist and His Ten Kingdoms by John Wesley, pg. 110.

Ellen G. White: Seven Day Adventists
"This compromise between paganism and Christianity resulted in the development of "the man of sin" foretold in prophecy as opposing and exalting himself above God. That gigantic system of false religion is a masterpiece of Satan's power--a monument of his efforts to seat himself upon the throne to rule the earth according to his will.
Thomas Cranmer (Anglican)
"Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons." (Referring to prophecies in Revelation and Daniel.) Taken from Works by Cranmer, Vol. 1, pp. 6-7. ​

Roger Williams (First Baptist Pastor in America)
He spoke of the Pope as "the pretended Vicar of Christ on earth, who sits as God over the Temple of God, exalting himself not only above all that is called God, but over the souls and consciences of all his vassals, yea over the Spirit of Christ, over the Holy Spirit, yea, and God himself...speaking against the God of heaven, thinking to change times and laws; but he is the son of perdition (II Thess. 2)." Taken from The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers by Froom, Vol. 3, pg. 52.

1689 London Baptist Confession​

Chapter 26: Of the Church. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the church, in whom, by the appointment of the Father, all power for the calling, institution, order or government of the church, is invested in a supreme and sovereign manner; neither can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof, but is that antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ, and all that is called God; whom the Lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming. ( Colossians 1:18; Matthew 28:18-20; Ephesians 4:11, 12; 2 Thessalonians 2:2-9 ) ​

John Knox (Scotch Presbyterian)
Knox wrote to abolish "that tyranny which the pope himself has for so many ages exercised over the church" and that the pope should be recognized as "the very antichrist, and son of perdition, of whom Paul speaks." Taken from The Zurich Letters, pg. 199 by John Knox. ​

John Calvin (Presbyterian)
"Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt... I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy." Taken from Institutes by John Calvin.

Presbyterian Church (Year 2000)
The following Resolution was unanimously passed by the South Atlantic Presbytery of the Bible Presbyterian Church meeting in Charlotte, North Carolina, March 25, 2000.

http://www.remnantofgod.org/4fathers.htm
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Enthusiastic name-calling does not mean anything to truth. IF the Pope is styled as "God on earth" or "Vicar of the Son of God" on earth - one who takes the place of God etc - then rather than accuse him of it - find the quotes from the sources - including Catholic sources themselves.

That way everyone benefits.

in Christ,

Bob

 

OR,

Centuries before the Reformation Christians have recognized the Roman Catholic Church as Mystery Babylon, and the officeholder of the Papacy, Antichrist.

Below is an early example of such testimony.

The testimony of the Roman Catholic historian, Thuanus, concerning the hanging of alleged ‘Manichean’ heretics in Goslar, Germany in A.D. 1052:

You will find numerous excerpts of similar testimonies through the ages here:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=93591&highlight=Protestant

BTW, please note that the RCC consistently charged true Christians who dissented as ‘Manicheans.’ By so doing they claimed the right to persecute and kill them.

 

I don't doubt that throughout much of history the Church of Rome is representative of the apostate church or the Harlot, Babylon. Following are some remarks I wrote years ago when teaching the Book of Revelation:

That being said I do not believe that the Church of Rome alone will be the sum total of the final manifestation of the Harlot Babylon! Following are some additional thoughts on the final manifestation of the Harlot, the apostate church, Babylon.

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Thanks, brother, for sharing your views.

No doubt the cults you mentioned are antichrist.

However, none are guilty of drinking the blood of the saints; i.e., murdering true Christians.

Furthermore, Mystery Babylon has Rome as its ruling capital/seat.

These two prophecies alone point to the RCC as the Mother of all Harlots, Mystery Babylon.

Our Christian brothers of long ago have written innumerable dissertations proving why the RCC is the fulfillment of Mystery Babylon, her Papal head, the Antichrist.

The Jesuits invented Futurism and Preterism to misdirect the damning prophecies away from the RCC and Papacy.

This is historical fact.

 

I think I am getting in on this late but will just share a few thoughts.

First, it is normal to feel like an outsider any time you begin something new, whether it is joining a faith that is different than what you are used to or even just joining a new fellowship of the same faith, so I would not over-worry this issue. It will pass. for now keep in mind that you are being moved to fellowship, and this I am sure is the Lord moving you, so keep your fellowship's focus on worship, that should be your primary reason for attending any House of God. It's not up to you to ensure those you fellowship with are correct in everything they do and teach. Doesn't matter what fellowship you go to, someone is going to be wrong about something, lol.

Secondly, don't over-worry your understanding of God and His Word. This too will change as you grow in knowledge. I would recommend fervent study and to continue meeting with others that are interested in learning more, just as you are doing by coming to a doctrinal discussion forum. This is a great way for accelerated learning, one of the best, I believe.

In regards to baptism, I would suggest a focused study on this. My view is that Christian Baptism doesn't save, however, it is commanded and it is generally viewed as a public profession of faith. I think it meant more in the culture of the early Church, where public profession could have dramatic impact on one's life. That doesn't mean public profession today means nothing, though.

In regards to the Catholic/Baptist antagonism, keep in mind that Catholicism was the mainstream faith for many years (and still very large), and we would not expect the Lord to exclude people from salvation due to their denomination, lol. Catholics are no different, practically speaking, that is, from any other group: there are those that are faithful, and there are those that are religious only. The same is true of Baptists. In both groups you will have those more fervent in study, and those who are satisfied with what they learn from their leadership.

The question does not center on their worship, but on yours. You could attend either group and be saved, or lost.

So, simply set your sights on those things you feel you are being moved of God concerning, such as rejoining fellowship with other believers and learning more about the Lord. As you grow, you will come to better understand the things that might be troubling or confusing.

Three things I suggest: study, study, study, lol. For me, time in the Word and speaking with others about the Lord is when I feel closest to Him. Good luck in your journey.

God bless.

 

Also, remember that Church of rome is same as ANY religion outside of true christianity, as they have a false gospel that saves none!