Featured Eph 1:1-14

A wrong view of the biblical term foreknowledge....
accompanied by all the other denials such as....
The new Covenant and ezk 36 has nothing to do with Christians...

The Spirit does not give a new heart ,,,a heart transplant to Christians

Eph 1 has nothing to do with predestination unto salvation

The carnal Christian heresy

psalm 14 does not apply other than to "Babylonians"

Dead sinners are not really dead to Spiritual truths

you came to Christ by yourself

 

No.

By Merriam-Webster.
It is the Calvinist that takes such self-explanatory words and put a new twist on them or redefine them. They have to, in order to force the square theological box of Calvinism into the circle of life. It won't fit. It won't turn.

Ezekiel lived 600 years before Christ. So, no--his writings had nothing to do with Christianity. They didn't live back then. He was addressing the nation of Israel, not believers in Christ.

The Spirit does not give a new heart ,,,a heart transplant to Christians

Eph 1 has nothing to do with predestination unto salvation

The carnal Christian heresy

psalm 14 does not apply other than to "Babylonians"

Dead sinners are not really dead to Spiritual truths

you came to Christ by yourself

[/QUOTE]

I can see why you are confused. You just lift statements from various discussions out of context but not really wanting to discuss or debate anyone of them. No wonder confusion reigns supreme in your mind. You are not open to the truth.

 

You really answered nothing.

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False comment. God's choosing / election is made before we are born and done any good or evil Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

So your testimony is again false and against scripture truth !

 

Romans 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

My testimony? Are you the elder or the younger? Esau or Jacob?
Spiritual or carnal? What makes you think these verses are even applicable to the comments I have made? We are speaking about Ephesians chapter one, or do you remember that?

 

Unfortunately for you, Merriam-Webster can't define Koine Greek or show, in context, the Apostle's usage of the word.

Swing and a miss!!!!

The Archangel

 

So then, the whole "he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel” of Genesis 3 is not applicable to Christians either, I guess. This can't be the proto-Gospel since is wasn't specifically written to Christians...

The Archangel

 

I think you quoted Iconoclast's criticism of DHK, not DHK's own words.

 

Anything is possible.... But I think the quoted words are indeed DHK's.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

I am not sure myself. He did not use the quote feature properly.

 

Reformed

I wrote that short list from memory.....not the quote feature.
Dhk has posted each idea.......Ezk36 not for Christians
The new covenant for Israel not Christians......some of these might have been in the Divine enablement thread. .....i will look it up.

From DHK-

Jesus explained to Nicodemus that the Spirit works in the unseen realm.....effectually.

I answered DHK in that thread with this from EZK36
Here are some more Divine means that God uses to enable a sinner to to what he cannot by himself-

God has promised to give a new heart-

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols,
will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you,
and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,
and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you,
and cause you to walk in my statutes,
and ye shall keep my judgments,
and do them.

Notice DHK.... God does it all......here in case you missed it-
God does a Divine heart transplant. Unlike your "testimony" [where you did everything}
1]Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you

2]from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

3]A new heart also will I give you,

4]and a new spirit will I put within you

5]and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,

6]and I will give you an heart of flesh

7]And I will put my spirit within you

8]and cause you to walk in my statutes

No fairytale here DHK.....No this is the unseen work of the Spirit that you speak of as magical , mystical , yoga meditation and whatever other "tongue in cheek" mocking you offered instead.

end of pt 1---

You have Divine open heart transplant in the unseen realm.
You have the law of God written upon the heart
You have the testimony of the heavens declaring God's glory
You have the testimony of a God given conscience
You have the word of God inscripturated
You have the word preached and taught .
You have the fellowship of other believers
You have God given teachers given as gifts to the church

HERE WAS HIS RESPONSE;

Then when I questioned him here is his extended response;
DHK WROTE;

 

Here He says Christians have not come to the Heavenly Jerusalem and Zion;

 

The Apostle Paul wrote: Romans 15:4. For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

The Bible is the story of the Grace of God in the Redemption of His people. To me Genesis 3:15 is the initial revelation in time of the Covenant of Grace. Certainly it is the initial promise of the Redeemer, Jesus Christ! Therefore, I believe all Scripture beginning with Genesis 1:1 was written for the benefit of the people of God. Obviously there are certain ordinances and offerings practiced in the Old Testament that are no longer applicable to Christians but that does not mean we cannot learn from them.

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Oh, I agree completely.

Perhaps it didn't come across in the post responding to DHK, but I was being very sarcastic.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

Great verse......romans 15...Paul continues;


Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.

12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

14 And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.

15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,

16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.


It is these portions of scripture that began my process of leaving the false dispensational paradigm and coming into a more biblically consistent model which is still a work in progress.

I visited a church and in conversation with me he denied that as Christians we are in the new Covenant...he replied as DHK has...and I was stunned when I heard it. I had to go back and look carefully at what they were saying and then studying through Hebrews for a few years I could no longer think of myself in those terms:thumbs:

 

You really don't see the truth of this passage do you? It is clouded by the allegorism of Calvinistic interpretation, the indoctrination of an over-zealous Covenantal theology so much so that you can't see the forest for the trees.

Consider:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake)
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Remember the over-all context. The author is addressing Hebrews who were discouraged through persecution, some of whom were wanting to return to the old system of Temple worship. Paul sets before them these two systems: the Old and the New. They are constantly contrasted throughout the entire book.
The key words are "better than" or "Let us..." as in "let us go on"

Here is the contrast between the law, the nation being delivered from Egypt and coming to Mount Sinai where they are made a theocracy and given the Law of Moses. It was fearful to come right before that very mount before the presence of God. Only Moses could go into the mount itself. The entire scene was terrifying. Moses himself trembled. (Vs. 21: "I exceedingly fear and quake."

By contrast: vs 22 "BUT"
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
--They have not come to such a forbidding and terrifying place, but rather a place where there is grace and mercy. Every believer can enter this place by faith. We can approach the living God by faith: in confession, praise, prayer.
Then the High Priest entered in once a year.
We can enter in at any time.
The law had it its Mount Sinai
Mont Zion is a heavenly mountain that symbolizes all the blessings that we receive by faith. They are ours because of the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Law had its earthly Jerusalem, but faith has its heavenly capital above.
It is the city of the living God.
We are strangers and pilgrims on this earth. (Phil.3:20). Someday we will enter into that city but not now. We only see it by faith. It is a real city.
Today we are members of the bride of Christ, the family of God, all who have died since Pentecost. Those who have died are in the presence of Christ awaiting the resurrection. We also await the resurrection, the redemption of our bodies.
By faith we see God the Judge of all. Someday we will meet him. We will stand before him.

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
--But this place we look to in faith. We have not attained there yet. Someday we will. Not now. We look in faith. We have not attained.
We do not stand before the Judge.
We are not with "the spirits of just men made 'complete'"
We are not there yet.

 

DHK

I do see it very clearly.....One of us does not see it clearly yet.:laugh:
Let's see who that person is~!

Or...lost in the dense fog of mixed up dispensational fragmenting of revealed truth...let's see!

ok...good section of scripture

ok..we can agree for the most part on this...I would say he is showing the superiority of Jesus Christ in all things
.

The law itself is not the contrast.....that which is outward and physical and in type is being contrasted with that which is inward, spiritual and fulfilled In Jesus the superior High Priest.....
The first exodus[Moses]....the new Exodus{Jesus}

Outward, physical, law external on stone......until the Nt time of reformation


8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

 

I understood what you were saying and assumed we had essentially the same view of Scripture!

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Icon,

I don't see how one can study the Bible and be a dispensationalist. In particular I don't understand how one could study the book of Hebrews and be a dispensationalist. But if one does not believe that we are included in the New Covenant, as Hebrews clearly teaches, I guess anything is possible.

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The first time I studied Hebrews it took about 2 years....It took so long because I was scrambling to find if any of my dispensational books could answer the challenges that came from Hebrews....the verses that were quoted and looking up all these things. I was trying to resist these ideas but they held fast....and still do:thumbsup::thumbsup:

When I looked at commentary from other men who were not held in dispensational confusion it helped open up the whole OT root promises.
DHK thinks this is to allegorize....but it is only rightly dividing the truth indeed.