Featured John:6:38-39

DHK, I think the reason you are promoting pelagianism is because you are completely bypassing the fall of man.

RE: Fall of man

SCRIPTURE PROOF
1 Corinthians 2:14: The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.
Genesis 2:17: But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Romans 5:12: Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned.
2 Corinthians 1:9: Yea, we ourselves had the sentence of death within ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God who raiseth the dead.
Ephesians 2:1-3: And you did He make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; among whom ye also all once lived in the lusts of your flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
Ephesians 2:12: Ye were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Jeremiah 13:23: Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
Psalm 51:5: Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me.
John 3:3: Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Romans 3:10-12: As it is written, There is none righteous, no not one; There is none that understandeth, There is none that seeketh after God; They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable; There is none that doeth good. no, not so much as one.
Job 14:4: Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.
1 Corinthians 1:18: For the word of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us who are saved it is the power of God.
Acts 13:41: Behold, ye despisers, and wonder and perish; For I work a work in your days, A work which ye shall in no wise believe, if one declare it unto you.
Proverbs 30:12: There is a generation that are pure in their own eye, And yet are not washed from their filthiness.
John 5:21: For as the Father raiseth the dead and giveth them life, even so the Son also giveth life to whom He will.
John 6:53: Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood, ye have not life in yourselves.
John 8:19: They said therefore unto Him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye know neither me, nor my Father; if ye knew me, ye would know my Father also.
Matthew 11:25: I thank thee, O Father Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding, and didst reveal them unto babes.
2 Corinthians 5:17: If any man is in Christ, he is a new creature.
John 14:16: (And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever,) even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth Him not, neither knoweth Him; ye know Him; for He abideth with you, and shall be in you.
John 3:19: And this is the judgment, that light is come unto the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil.
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

 

I do not promote Plegianism. I do not bypass the fall of man.
Because I didn't explain the doctrine to you does not mean I don't believe it.
Do I have to teach you all the doctrines of the Bible before you are convinced I believe the Bible???????

Simply quoting a bunch of references doesn't prove much except that you know how to copy and paste.

 

Oh He is willing that many perish, that's why they are perishing, it's not rocket science.

 

DHK says man is able to receive the things of God, but scripture says they can't. That's the poison of pelagianism speaking.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

There's an old saying...'a picture is worth a thousand words'. Saves me time posting them.

'Swing and a miss'!!!

 

You misrepresent the views of others by throwing out the pelagianism charge. Still, at least pelagianism is much older than the "poison of Calvinism" which was invented in the 16th century and has absolutely zero biblical basis.

 

:applause::applause::applause::applause:

 

Your position is cherry picking verses, taking them out of context and denying what the Word says in doing so--doing anything possible to force Calvinism into the Word when it was unheard of before Augustine came. He is one of the founding fathers of the RCC and you swallow his teachings. Amazing!

What becomes so dreary is having to take the time to refute this over and over again.
Paul was writing to a CARNAL church, a very carnal church.
In chapter one he calls them out for being divisive. He thanks God that he baptized none of them except for a very few. He even tells them that God sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel.

In chapter two, he condemns them for listening to false teachers and compares his teaching to the false teachers.

In chapter three, he tells them that they are CARNAL. He can't feed them with meat, but must continue to feed them with milk because they are still babes in Christ--still CARNAL.

Going back to chapter two:
Verses 12 and 13 refer to the fact that we all as believers have the Spirit of God which enable us to search out the deep things of God, mentioned in verse 10:
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Thus God has given us the Spirit:
1Co 2:12-13
(12) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
(13) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
--We are able to compare spiritual with spiritual; have the ability to use the Word, to study to show ourselves approved, to study the "deep things of God."

However, the carnal man does not have this ability because he still is a babe in Christ.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
--The word "natural" does not necessarily refer to unsaved although it could."
It simply refers to "in the flesh." Anyone can be "in the flesh." Those who are not in the Spirit, are in the flesh. The Corinthians could not understand the deep things of God because they were carnal, that is, "in the flesh."

1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
--Paul was spiritual. He could judge all things.
Paul knew the mind of the Lord. Paul said, referring to him and the other apostles, "we have the mind of Christ." He was not referring to the carnal Christians that mostly made up the Corinthian Church.

There were no chapter divisions in the original, so Paul continues:
1Co 3:1-3
(1) And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
(2) I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
(3) For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

For times in four verses Paul calls them carnal. These were carnal Christians, immature, choosing to make carnal decisions over spiritual. They were still babes in Christ. Instead of following Christ (vs.4), they followed their "heroes," different men.
2:14 refers to the carnal Corinthians not to the unsaved. That is what the context is.
The Corinthians were unable to search the "deep things of God," because they were "in the flesh," "carnal" and were unable to discern the Word of God. It is not referring to the unsaved man. The unsaved man is still able to read a Bible or a tract and understand the gospel.
Why do you think most churches pass out tracts if "they are unable to understand spiritual things"? That is counterproductive isn't it?
Why do many hand out Bibles, gospel of John's, etc. if the unsaved are not able to discern spiritual things?
Do you think there might be any Calvinists among "The Gideons," even when they were a bit more conservative? Why the urgency in getting the Word out to the unsaved if "they cannot are spiritually discerned"?
Your entire position goes contrary to many practices of your own churches.

 

A natural person can't be a babe in Christ, that's why Jesus said to Nicodemus, "ye must be born from above" John 3:3.

 

A natural person is simply "in the flesh" which is "a babe in Christ," or one who hasn't grown. You ignore context and haven't replied to the post. That one-liner is an insult.

 

The natural man is a carnal one, one who acts according to the flesh.
Just because we live in the world, does not give us license to live "according to the world," but many do, and the Corinthians did. That is what the verse was teaching and especially in chapter 3 does Paul point this out.

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

From A.T. Robertson

 

This is what the Lord thinks of carnal Christianity:

The Vatican is next.

 

Agreed. Carnality; Worldliness--God hates it; He always has:

Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

A carnal Christian is as good as the enemy of God. God hates it.

 

Amen +1 That's what I have been trying to show him.

Thanks for some help, it's been a little rough on my new topic lately. http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2205406&postcount=1

 

In 1 cor 2:14 it's not hos sarkinois for natural man, it's psuchikos (soulish).

 

I fully realize that. Have you never acted out of your carnal self?
Or are you spiritual in all that you do--meaning of course that you never sin, have attained entire sanctification.
Beware of the teaching of 1John 1:8,10, before you answer that.

Adam Clarke says this: