Why does the SDA see Ellen White as a prophetess?

[Yeshua1]

And what makes their view of her ANY different than a mormon claiming same for Joseph Smith?

 

[Revmitchell]

Because their whole program falls apart without her.

 

[vooks]

One of her most preposterous claim is that some (black African) races were product of beastiality. This was a common thought I the 18th century. Now some Adventists are questioning her 'inspiration' claims
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=99286

 

[Yeshua1]

One of her most preposterous claim is that some (black African) races were product of beastiality. This was a common thought I the 18th century. Now some Adventists are questioning her 'inspiration' claims
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=99286

That would be a doctrine from satan, not from God, as God created ALL humans to be the SAME race, in the very image of God!

 

[Yeshua1]

Because their whole program falls apart without her.

So true, and yet what can they claim makes her a valid prophetess that Mormons cannot claim same for their dude?

 

[JonC]

The difference, if you accept SDA as Christian, is false doctrine among believers vs. a non-Christian religion. I do not know what SDA's believe regarding the gospel, but I do know Mormon's reject the gospel.

 

[Yeshua1]

The difference, if you accept SDA as Christian, is false doctrine among believers vs. a non-Christian religion. I do not know what SDA's believe regarding the gospel, but I do know Mormon's reject the gospel.

As do the SDA, as they follow the teachings of their prophetess, who stated that any who worship on Sunday will get mark of the beast, that their church was the real/true church preserved by God, and that no one has etrnal life now, as its prbationary, and all will have the "Investigative Judgement", and any who failed to uphold SDA and live as she said would forfeit salvation and get burned up!

 

[JonC]

As do the SDA, as they follow the teachings of their prophetess, who stated that any who worship on Sunday will get mark of the beast, that their church was the real/true church preserved by God, and that no one has etrnal life now, as its prbationary, and all will have the "Investigative Judgement", and any who failed to uphold SDA and live as she said would forfeit salvation and get burned up!

An organization that believes as you describe (replacing the gospel with upholding a doctrine) has no portion in the Church of Jesus Christ. I just have not studied SDA belief enough to expound.

 

[Yeshua1]

An organization that believes as you describe (replacing the gospel with upholding a doctrine) has no portion in the Church of Jesus Christ. I just have not studied SDA belief enough to expound.

Check out their official positions, as the SDA denies that we are saved by grace alone, thru faith alone, as one MUST keep the Sabbath day, and one must heed and obey what their prophetess taught!

 

[vooks]

What I ask SDAs is, who subjected EGW to test and found her to be a prophet so much that they are made to swear that she had the gift of prophecy?

Most SDAs NEVER study Ellen White outside their sect literature so they remain blinded

 

[BobRyan]

And what makes their view of her ANY different than a mormon claiming same for Joseph Smith?

If every prophet is Joseph Smith - then Paul, and John, and Deborah of the OT and Anna of the NT and Philip's 4 daughters in the NT and all those in 1Cor 14 - have quite a lot of news to catch up on.

God changed???

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

An organization that believes as you describe (replacing the gospel with upholding a doctrine) has no portion in the Church of Jesus Christ. I just have not studied SDA belief enough to expound.

The pagan Romans invented the charge that Christians were cannibals, the Jews invented the Charge that Christ was a criminal, the Catholics invented myriad charges against Protestants - none of which were proven to be true.

If you want to know the truth about one of God's prophets - you have to read something other than the false charges that can be had against them.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[OldRegular]

As do the SDA, as they follow the teachings of their prophetess, who stated that any who worship on Sunday will get mark of the beast, that their church was the real/true church preserved by God, and that no one has etrnal life now, as its prbationary, and all will have the "Investigative Judgement", and any who failed to uphold SDA and live as she said would forfeit salvation and get burned up!

I believe that the SDA is a cult, principally for the two following reasons taken from: http://www.adventist.org/fileadmin/...rticles/official-statements/28Beliefs-Web.pdf

The Gift of Prophecy Z18

One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

Christ’s Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary Z24

There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Heb. 8:1-5; 4:14-16; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; 1:3; 2:16, 17; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13, 14; 9:24-27; Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6; Lev. 16; Rev. 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12; 22:12.)

However, their Doctrine of God is Biblical and their doctrine of Salvation seems to be Arminian in nature which is consistent with many "Christian" denominations!

Holy Scriptures Z1

The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God’s acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)


Trinity Z2

There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 14:7.)


Father Z3

God the eternal Father is the Creator, Source, Sustainer, and Sovereign of all creation. He is just and holy, merciful and gra- cious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness. The qualities and powers exhibited in the Son and the Holy Spirit are also revelations of the Father. (Gen. 1:1; Rev. 4:11; 1 Cor. 15:28; John 3:16; 1 John 4:8; 1 Tim. 1:17; Ex. 34:6, 7; John 14:9.)


Son Z4

God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human be- ing, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. By His miracles He manifested God’s power and was attested as God’s promised Messiah. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. (John 1:1-3, 14; Col. 1:15-19; John 10:30; 14:9; Rom. 6:23; 2 Cor. 5:17-19; John 5:22; Luke 1:35; Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 2:9-18; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4; Heb. 8:1, 2; John 14:1-3.)


Holy Spirit Z5

God the eternal Spirit was active with the Father and the Son in Creation, incarnation, and redemption. He inspired the writers of Scripture. He filled Christ’s life with power. He draws and convicts human beings; and those who respond He renews and transforms into the image of God. Sent by the Father and the Son to be always with His children, He extends spiritual gifts to the church, empowers it to bear witness to Christ, and in harmony with the Scriptures leads it into all truth. (Gen. 1:1, 2; Luke 1:35; 4:18; Acts 10:38; 2 Peter 1:21; 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:11, 12; Acts 1:8; John 14:16-18, 26; 15:26, 27; 16:7-13.)


Nature of Man Z7

Man and woman were made in the image of God with individuality, the power and freedom to think and to do. Though cre- ated free beings, each is an indivisible unity of body, mind, and spirit, dependent upon God for life and breath and all else. When our first parents disobeyed God, they denied their dependence upon Him and fell from their high position under God. The image of God in them was marred and they became subject to death. Their descendants share this fallen nature and its consequences. They are born with weaknesses and tendencies to evil. But God in Christ reconciled the world to Himself and by His Spirit restores in penitent mortals the image of their Maker. Created for the glory of God, they are called to love Him and one another, and to care for their environment. (Gen. 1:26-28; 2:7; Ps. 8:4-8; Acts 17:24-28; Gen. 3; Ps. 51:5; Rom. 5:12-17; 2 Cor. 5:19, 20; Ps. 51:10; 1 John 4:7, 8, 11, 20; Gen. 2:15.)


Life, Death, and Resurrection of Christ Z9

In Christ’s life of perfect obedience to God’s will, His suffering, death, and resurrection, God provided the only means of atonement for human sin, so that those who by faith accept this atonement may have eternal life, and the whole creation may better understand the infinite and holy love of the Creator. This perfect atonement vindicates the righteousness of God’s law and the graciousness of His character; for it both condemns our sin and provides for our forgiveness. The death of Christ is substitutionary and expiatory, reconciling and transforming. The resurrection of Christ proclaims God’s triumph over the forces of evil, and for those who accept the atonement assures their final victory over sin and death. It declares the Lordship of Jesus Christ, before whom every knee in heaven and on earth will bow. (John 3:16; Isa. 53; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4, 20-22; 2 Cor. 5:14, 15, 19-21; Rom. 1:4; 3:25; 4:25; 8:3, 4; 1 John 2:2; 4:10; Col. 2:15; Phil. 2:6-11.)


Experience of Salvation Z10

In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righ- teousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example. This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God’s grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God’s sons and daugh- ters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God’s law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. (2 Cor. 5:17-21; John 3:16; Gal. 1:4; 4:4-7; Titus 3:3-7; John 16:8; Gal. 3:13, 14; 1 Peter 2:21, 22; Rom. 10:17; Luke 17:5; Mark 9:23, 24; Eph. 2:5-10; Rom. 3:21-26; Col. 1:13, 14; Rom. 8:14-17; Gal. 3:26; John 3:3-8; 1 Peter 1:23; Rom. 12:2; Heb. 8:7-12; Eze. 36:25-27; 2 Peter 1:3, 4; Rom. 8:1-4; 5:6-10.)

I read the info in the above link some months ago and found no real problem other than in #'s 18 and 24. I did not reread the above before making this post so may have overlooked something else I strongly reject.

 

[Darrell C]

The pagan Romans invented the charge that Christians were cannibals, the Jews invented the Charge that Christ was a criminal, the Catholics invented myriad charges against Protestants - none of which were proven to be true.

If you want to know the truth about one of God's prophets - you have to read something other than the false charges that can be had against them.

in Christ,

Bob

Would you mind presenting a few "revelations" or prophesies that typically come under fire because they are viewed by other faiths to be false as those of Smith were?

And on a tablet this week, Bob, so my responses will be brief.

By the way, what ever happened to Heavenly Pilgrim?


God bless.

 

[BobRyan]

Would you mind presenting a few "revelations" or prophesies that typically come under fire because they are viewed by other faiths to be false as those of Smith were?

And on a tablet this week, Bob, so my responses will be brief.

By the way, what ever happened to Heavenly Pilgrim?


God bless.

Don't know what the deal is with HP.

Ellen White may not have been the first one to promote a given SDA doctrine (which is always the case as it turns out ) but at some point or another she had a vision that claimed that the doctrine was correct. So that is an easy place for a non-SDA to make a charge - just pick an SDA doctrine that you don't agree with and sooner or later there will also be some statement by Ellen White in favor of it - and usually claiming that an Angel or God Himself in the person of Jesus Christ happened to mention it to her.

That is the easiest.

As for a simple example of a prediction and vision that God alone could have given her -

The Salamanca Vision.—In the night of November 3, 1890, God looked ahead some four months and saw a meeting of a very small group of men that would be held late on the night of March 7, 1891. Things would be said and done at that meeting that would not be for the best interest of our work. To avert the danger threatening the cause if a certain course should be followed, and to duly impress those who would be participants in that meeting, and to convince them beyond the shadow of a doubt that God was still in control of His work, He gave a vision to His servant Ellen G. White on the night of November 3, 1890, and showed her a scene of that very meeting. She saw a man stand up and lift a copy of the American Sentinel high in the air and point to several articles, declaring that such topics as the Sabbath and the second coming of Christ should not find a place in the paper that spoke for the Religious Liberty Association.
Several times Mrs. White began to tell what she had seen in that vision at the meeting in Salamanca, New York. Each time she faltered and could not recall a single detail. Finally after four months she came to Battle Creek to attend the conference, which was held from March 5 to 25 in the year 1891. She spoke to the ministers at their 5:30 A.M. meetings. On March 7 the president asked her if she would be back on Sunday morning, March 8, and she declined, thinking that she had given enough instruction already.

[95]

The Sabbath closed, the evening meeting was concluded, and Sister White, with all others, retired. Did I say “all others”? Not exactly, for a small group of men went to an office in the Review and Herald building for a strictly secret meeting of their own. They locked the door and resolved not to leave that room until their highly controversial problem was settled. Hour after hour passed. Midnight found them deep in their debate. One o'clock came, two, and then nearly three, when they finally adjourned and went to their respective rooms to sleep and rest.
Shortly after that meeting closed, Ellen G. White, in the privacy of her own room, was awakened. The angel of the Lord bade her attend the five-thirty meeting and present what she had seen at Salamanca four months before. The whole scene came back, and she wrote page after page until time came for the five-thirty ministers' meeting. She picked up her manuscripts and made her way to the Tabernacle. The ministers were on the platform. W. W. Prescott and O. A. Olsen were prepared to speak, but on seeing Mrs. White enter the room with her papers, Elder Olsen asked whether she had a message. “Indeed I do,” responded Ellen G. White.
The Testimony Delivered on Time.—She stated that she had not planned to be present at that meeting, but she had been awakened at three o'clock and bidden to present some things she had seen in vision at Salamanca, New York, on November 3, 1890.

[96]

O. A. Olsen, who was to speak that morning, records what was said and done:
“She then began to read, describing a meeting that was shown her that was held in one of the rooms in the Review Office, where a number of brethren were together. She described their attitude and their earnestness, and the position which they had taken; for there was a heated discussion, as they could not agree on certain questions at issue.
“Personally I sat there in blank bewilderment. I did not know what she referred to. I had neither heard nor had any knowledge of the things that she presented, nor of such a meeting as she described. Indeed, I was so surprised, and the things she presented as having taken place in that meeting seemed so unreasonable, that I was quite nonplused in my mind as to what this meant.”—White Publications Document File, No. 107f.
When Sister White had finished her testimony, the men present looked about in bewilderment, but not for long.
A. F. Ballenger, then secretary of the Religious Liberty Association, arose and said that the meeting described by the servant of the Lord had been held the night before. He declared that he was the one who had held up the copy of the American Sentinel and pointed to the article on the Sabbath and the Second Advent. He also confessed that he had been on the wrong side of the controversy.
Captain Eldridge, president of the International Religious Liberty Association, arose and said:

[97]

“‘I was in that meeting…. Last night, after the close of the Conference, some of us met in my room in the Review Office, where we locked ourselves in, and there took up and discussed the questions and the matter that has been presented to us this morning. We remained in that room till three o'clock this morning.’”—Ibid.
He stated further:
“‘If I should have begun to give a description of what took place, and the personal attitude of those in the room, I could not have given it as exactly and correctly as it has been given by Sister White. I now see that I was in error; that the position that I took was not correct; and from the light that has been given this morning, I acknowledge that I was wrong.’”—Ibid.
Only a messenger in close communion with God could bear such an unusual but absolutely accurate testimony about a meeting to be held four months in the future.



http://www.whiteestate.org/books/bhp/bhpc06.html#sth0

As for an example of end-time prophetic vision of how the world ends ---

this chapter has a lot of eye-witness statements on the 2nd coming events that will take place.

http://www.whiteestate.org/books/bhp/bhpc06.html#sth0


http://www.whiteestate.org/books/gc/gc40.html

She also predicted in the 1800's that a healing of the wound between Catholicism and America's Protestantism would take place. This is important given the anti-catholic sentiment in America in the 1800's and early 1900's.

Another predictive area involves the astounding rise of papal influence, from virtual innocuousness in the nineteenth century to its current worldwide power and influence. In 1888, during the dark days of the papacy, Ellen White wrote: “Let the principle once be established in the United States, that the church may employ or control the power of the state; that religious observances may be enforced by secular laws; in short, that the authority of church and state is to dominate the conscience, and the triumph of Rome in this country [the U.S.A.] is assured.
“God’s word has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. . . . Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is.”53
The 1980s and 1990s witnessed a dramatic recovery of world stature by the Pope of Rome, a far cry from those decades between 1870 and 1929 when the pope was the “prisoner of the Vatican.”54 The world was stunned to see the President of the United States and the Pope on the cover of Time magazine, February 24, 1992, under the words, “The Holy Alliance.” The feature article unfolded the story behind the collapse of communism. President Reagan and Pope John Paul II had been in close, highly secret, consultation for years as they worked together to destabilize the communist network. “They regarded the U.S.–Vatican relationship as a holy alliance; the moral force of their church combined with their fierce anticommunism and their notion of American democracy.” Without this close cooperation between the Catholic Church and the United States, world developments in recent decades probably would have been vastly different.
Further, as if to single-handedly endorse Ellen White’s 1888 predictions, Time magazine’s cover for December 26, 1994, featured Pope John Paul II as “Man of the Year.” In that cover story, the Pope presented himself as the “moral compass for believers and nonbelievers alike.” Even Billy Graham, symbol of evangelical Protestantism, said of the Pope: “He’s been the strong conscience of the whole Christian world.”55


http://www.whiteestate.org/books/mol/Chapt15.html#Some

 

[BobRyan]

I read the info in the above link some months ago and found no real problem other than in #'s 18 and 24. I did not reread the above before making this post so may have overlooked something else I strongly reject.

18 is on the bible doctrine of prophecy from 1Cor 12, 1Cor 14:1 1Thess 5 telling us not to despise prophetic messages nor quench the Spirit nor tell the prophets "speak no more to us about the Holy One of Israel".

24 is about the Daniel 7 statement on the future Judgment, Romans 2:11-16 and Paul's Heb 8:1-6 statement telling is that the "main point" is that Christ is our High Priest in heaven.

 

[DHK]

18 is on the bible doctrine of prophecy from 1Cor 12, 1Cor 14:1 1Thess 5 telling us not to despise prophetic messages nor quench the Spirit nor tell the prophets "speak no more to us about the Holy One of Israel".

24 is about the Daniel 7 statement on the future Judgment, Romans 2:11-16 and Paul's Heb 8:1-6 statement telling is that the "main point" is that Christ is our High Priest in heaven.

It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent.

This has about as much scriptural evidence to back it up as the RCC doctrine of Purgatory--none. It is myth. Rather--heresy.

 

[Yeshua1]

The pagan Romans invented the charge that Christians were cannibals, the Jews invented the Charge that Christ was a criminal, the Catholics invented myriad charges against Protestants - none of which were proven to be true.

If you want to know the truth about one of God's prophets - you have to read something other than the false charges that can be had against them.

in Christ,

Bob

Did she or did she mot state that whoever observes Sunday worship has taken marof the beast?

That a Christian can lose eternal life depending on how obedient they were to her teachings?

That the SDA is THE true remnant church God kept unto Hmlself?

That her teachings are on par qith the Apostles themselves?

Well?

 

[Yeshua1]

This has about as much scriptural evidence to back it up as the RCC doctrine of Purgatory--none. It is myth. Rather--heresy.

That is why the SDA is just as the Mormons and JW"Biblical Cults!"

 

[One Baptism]

This has about as much scriptural evidence to back it up as the RCC doctrine of Purgatory--none. It is myth. Rather--heresy.

Well brother DHK, why do we not just consider the Scriptural evidence on the matter and see [from on the whole of it] if there is a judgment that takes place before Christ Jesus comes, and/or a judgment that is necessary before execution of sentence takes place, and if there is a judgment that the righteous/saints must go through. There are many texts on judgment [just from off the top of my head], and many examples to look at. Would any be interested in looking? This would be more beneficial, than simply outright declaring anything a myth or heresy without having first considered.

PS. I did not mean in this thread.